Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Peter Berger at 22 August 2004 22:27:01:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: ElChinito: A Crafty Clone geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 22 August 2004 00:41:56:
If the author is willing to submit his code to a 3 judge panel of experts as you suggest I would accept the opinion of that panel with no further evidence. But I think the author should have a say in who the experts are. Trying to put myself in Fritz Reul's place in Graz, I would have serious misgivings about showing my code to those particular experts.
Dan H.
Rereading my post I see it was poorly phrased. It was not my intention to cast aspersions on any specific individuals.
I do this strictly as a hobby and for fun. My source is available to anyone. However, if I had designs on developing a commercial product and I felt like I had some algorithms that gave me an edge the source would be a closely guarded secret. I would not show it to anyone with a financial connection to my competitors. This includes tournament organizers who rely on the sponsorship of my competitors to host their events.
Dan H.
The problem with this is that Fritz Reul agreed to the rule when he entered the tournament. One of the rules of the tournament is that your source code should be available for inspection. If he judged that he didn't want the tournament committee to see his code, he shouldn't have entered the tournament.
Andrew
Still smacks as a witch hunt to me. Some don't like it when a new boy on the block can so quickly challenge the long established giants.
Graham.
It seems that some do not like to believe that a big part of the new boys are simply clones.
history proves it when we can know only clones that were detected
Lepetite,Bionic=crafty clone
Syboney1.00=pepito clone
OldblindDog=arasan clone
Deep9=another pepito clone
Luiza=faile clone
Tuxedo=tscp clone
Rashess=pharaon clone
and now
Elchinito=Crafty clone
Uri
I think you are much too pessimistic about this.
There is a basic problem that, for what probably is a majority in most communities other than in this forum, people can't judge whether something is real or just a baseless accuse - so there is an incredible amount of noise in these discussions.
Roger Brown put this nicely in
http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/70325.htm - even here few people could do such a detailed analysis as Paul.
But the amount of observations done by various people in the current discussion is quite encouraging. I think that if someone can avoid detection altogether he is likely able to just do an engine on his/her own, and is likely to do just that.
While I would agree that there are probably several undetected ( or non-disclosed) clones of TSCP, simply as no one would be interested to check all engines of similar strength, I am much more positive when it is about Crafty or Pepito clones now.
My first reaction on Paul's analysis was sceptical because I thought he was giving away valueable information to evil-doers , but I now think that to avoid this kind of detection you have to be able to write your own engine from scratch.
Of course this is no comment on the ElChinito discussion itself , but I have to admit that even to my limitted understanding the evidence looks overwhelming.
Peter
