Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined

[Albert Silver]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Albert Silver at 12 September 2004 05:12:41:

One of the common seen comments on Pro Deo is that it is a poor blitz player. I've seen this comment in several Computer Chess forums. However, one can't help but notice how unusually quickly it plays compared to the time it has alloted, no matter what the time control. At the Pro Deo parameter page (http://members.home.nl/matador/engine.htm) there is a switch that allows one to have Pro Deo play faster or slower on average:
[Time Control ? 125] * 125
[Time Control Status ? PB ONLY] * ALWAYS|PB ONLY
(to activate, one must replace the '?' with '=')
I ran 2 blitz matches using the Nunn 2 set with Pro Deo playing against Ruffian 1.05 at 5 mins + 3 sec increment, in one set using the default settings (September 1st) and in the other using the time control parameter. The only other change I made was to turn off all learning (position, engine, book) so as to be sure the conditions were identical. It's not conclusive but it is very interesting, as 80 games were played in all.
Conditions: Athlon 2400XP+, 32 MB hash, Arena 1.08 GUI, pondering off.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo lost 16 - 24 to Ruffian 1.05
With Time Control setting (at 125): Pro Deo *won* 20.5 - 19.5
Albert

[Albert Silver]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Albert Silver at 12 September 2004 16:21:03:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Albert Silver at 12 September 2004 05:12:41:

One of the common seen comments on Pro Deo is that it is a poor blitz player. I've seen this comment in several Computer Chess forums. However, one can't help but notice how unusually quickly it plays compared to the time it has alloted, no matter what the time control. At the Pro Deo parameter page (http://members.home.nl/matador/engine.htm) there is a switch that allows one to have Pro Deo play faster or slower on average:
[Time Control ? 125] * 125
[Time Control Status ? PB ONLY] * ALWAYS|PB ONLY
(to activate, one must replace the '?' with '=')
I ran 2 blitz matches using the Nunn 2 set with Pro Deo playing against Ruffian 1.05 at 5 mins + 3 sec increment, in one set using the default settings (September 1st) and in the other using the time control parameter. The only other change I made was to turn off all learning (position, engine, book) so as to be sure the conditions were identical. It's not conclusive but it is very interesting, as 80 games were played in all.
Conditions: Athlon 2400XP+, 32 MB hash, Arena 1.08 GUI, pondering off.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo lost 16 - 24 to Ruffian 1.05
With Time Control setting (at 125): Pro Deo *won* 20.5 - 19.5
Albert

I forgot to add that when running on a machine with no permanent brain, or pondering, be sure to set the switch to
[Time Control Status = ALWAYS] * ALWAYS|PB ONLY
otherwise, as pointe out by Ed, the conditions would only work with the permanent brain on.
I am now running another series of matches against Aristarch 4.5 to see if this test holds true for it also, or was just a fluke against Ruffian.
Albert

[Peter Eizenhammer]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Peter Eizenhammer at 12 September 2004 18:52:55:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Albert Silver at 12 September 2004 16:21:03:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

[David Dahlem]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: David Dahlem at 12 September 2004 22:45:36:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Peter Eizenhammer at 12 September 2004 18:52:55:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

[Albert Silver]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Albert Silver at 13 September 2004 05:23:05:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: David Dahlem at 12 September 2004 22:45:36:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

I tested again against Aristarch 4.5.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 21.5 - 18.5 (+3)
With the Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 22.5 - 17.5 (+5)
Albert

[David Dahlem]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: David Dahlem at 13 September 2004 14:29:51:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Albert Silver at 13 September 2004 05:23:05:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

I tested again against Aristarch 4.5.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 21.5 - 18.5 (+3)
With the Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 22.5 - 17.5 (+5)
Albert

Hi Albert
Perhaps Ed needs to examine this parameter more closely.
Did you notice whether ProDeo used it's time more wisely with the Time Control setting at 125?
Regards
Dave

[Albert Silver]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Albert Silver at 13 September 2004 15:15:28:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: David Dahlem at 13 September 2004 14:29:51:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

I tested again against Aristarch 4.5.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 21.5 - 18.5 (+3)
With the Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 22.5 - 17.5 (+5)

Hi Albert
Perhaps Ed needs to examine this parameter more closely.
Did you notice whether ProDeo used it's time more wisely with the Time Control setting at 125?
Regards
Dave

In my opinion it does, or at least it seems far more normal. I played it at Playchess on a 4+2 game, and was shocked to see it still with close to 4 minutes after some 40+ moves. It wasn't losing, but still, that was just crazy. 2-3 games like this and nothing could convince me this was ideal time management. With the Ponder Off games, the only time it seemed to catch up in time was when it was in big trouble, but that's hardly ideal too.
I will say that the results aren't simply those of without TC with some added results. The results vary so some Nunn positions it won, it lost, but overall, the result was what I published. I'm running a 3rd match to check further, this time against List 5.12, no lightweight.
Albert

[David Dahlem]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: David Dahlem at 13 September 2004 15:34:06:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Albert Silver at 13 September 2004 15:15:28:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

I tested again against Aristarch 4.5.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 21.5 - 18.5 (+3)
With the Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 22.5 - 17.5 (+5)

Hi Albert
Perhaps Ed needs to examine this parameter more closely.
Did you notice whether ProDeo used it's time more wisely with the Time Control setting at 125?
Regards
Dave

In my opinion it does, or at least it seems far more normal. I played it at Playchess on a 4+2 game, and was shocked to see it still with close to 4 minutes after some 40+ moves. It wasn't losing, but still, that was just crazy. 2-3 games like this and nothing could convince me this was ideal time management. With the Ponder Off games, the only time it seemed to catch up in time was when it was in big trouble, but that's hardly ideal too.
I will say that the results aren't simply those of without TC with some added results. The results vary so some Nunn positions it won, it lost, but overall, the result was what I published. I'm running a 3rd match to check further, this time against List 5.12, no lightweight.
Albert

My time control of choice is always tournament time control, x moves in x minutes. I think i'll test ProDeo with Time Control at default and Time Control at 125 and watch to see if there is a noticable difference in time management.
Regards
Dave

[David Dahlem]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: David Dahlem at 13 September 2004 16:30:31:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Pro Deo at Blitz: re-examined geschrieben von:/posted by: Albert Silver at 13 September 2004 15:15:28:

Hi Albert,
many thanks for showing this interesting possibility.
ProDeo is really too fast sometimes, and tuning this
might have a positive effect.
Peter

Note that the author of ProDeo recommends the PB ONLY setting and not the ALWAYS setting.
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?387396
Regards
Dave

I tested again against Aristarch 4.5.
Without Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 21.5 - 18.5 (+3)
With the Time Control setting: Pro Deo beat Aristarch 22.5 - 17.5 (+5)

Hi Albert
Perhaps Ed needs to examine this parameter more closely.
Did you notice whether ProDeo used it's time more wisely with the Time Control setting at 125?
Regards
Dave

In my opinion it does, or at least it seems far more normal. I played it at Playchess on a 4+2 game, and was shocked to see it still with close to 4 minutes after some 40+ moves. It wasn't losing, but still, that was just crazy. 2-3 games like this and nothing could convince me this was ideal time management. With the Ponder Off games, the only time it seemed to catch up in time was when it was in big trouble, but that's hardly ideal too.
I will say that the results aren't simply those of without TC with some added results. The results vary so some Nunn positions it won, it lost, but overall, the result was what I published. I'm running a 3rd match to check further, this time against List 5.12, no lightweight.
Albert

I can't speak about other time controls, but at x moves in x minutes, the time management of the default time control settings of Pro Deo seem ideal to me.
Regards
Dave