Polyglot book now also used with WinBoard engines

[H.G.Muller]

WinBoard 4.3.15 (trial version already available as alpha.tst) will now also use the Polyglot book specified in the Options -> UCI... menu for WinBoard engines (if "useBook" is ticked in this menu! This should work in engine-engine, engine-human, and zippy mode. (The latter not tested, though.)

[F. Bluemers]

WinBoard 4.3.15 (trial version already available as alpha.tst) will now also use the Polyglot book specified in the Options -> UCI... menu for WinBoard engines (if "useBook" is ticked in this menu! This should work in engine-engine, engine-human, and zippy mode. (The latter not tested, though.)

That's great!!
Fonzy

[Guenther Simon]

A global GUI book option is fine, but how do set it up for specific
WB engines, because after all I still want to use own books if available?

Guenther

[Michel]

Thanks a lot!

This means that the non proprietary Polyglot book format can now be used easily on all standard GUIs!

Michel

[H.G.Muller]

A global GUI book option is fine, but how do set it up for specific
WB engines, because after all I still want to use own books if available?

OK, this is a good point. Perhaps I should arrange it such that the options -firstHasOwnBookUCI and -secondHasOwnBookUCI, which for UCI engines are merely passed to the engine, control the use of the GUI book for WB engines: if the option is set they would refrain from using the GUI book for that engine. As the default setting for these options is true, it means that even if /usePolyglotBook=true, WB engines would by default not use the GUI book, which is closer to the old situation, and thus has better upward compatibility.

Although this would have a side effect on UCI engines that disabling their internal books would also suppress their probing of the WinBoard GUI book, this would not be too bad, as Polyglot would still probe the GUI book for them. (The same book if Polyglot was invoked automatically through /fUCI or /sUCI!).

[Pablo]

WinBoard 4.3.15 (trial version already available as alpha.tst) will now also use the Polyglot book specified in the Options -> UCI... menu for WinBoard engines (if "useBook" is ticked in this menu! This should work in engine-engine, engine-human, and zippy mode. (The latter not tested, though.)

Hello Harm,
Congratulations for your idea. I wonder where I can download your Winboard 4.3.15 trial version.
Happy New Year !!!
Pablo Urzua

[Roger Brown]

Hello Harm,
Congratulations for your idea. I wonder where I can download your Winboard 4.3.15 trial version.
Happy New Year !!!
Pablo Urzua

Hello Pablo,

The link is below:

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/alpha.tst

Later.

[H.G.Muller]

Congratulations for your idea. I wonder where I can download your Winboard 4.3.15 trial version.

It was Michel's idea, actually. He provided the book-probing code, I interfaced it with WinBoard.

So far it only works in variant normal. Perhaps I will enable it also in Chess960 and the other shuffle variants before the final release.

[Pablo]

Hello Harm,
Congratulations for your idea. I wonder where I can download your Winboard 4.3.15 trial version.
Happy New Year !!!
Pablo Urzua

Hello Pablo,

The link is below:

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/alpha.tst

Later.

Roger
Many thanks
Happy new year
Pablo

[Pablo]

WinBoard 4.3.15 (trial version already available as alpha.tst) will now also use the Polyglot book specified in the Options -> UCI... menu for WinBoard engines (if "useBook" is ticked in this menu! This should work in engine-engine, engine-human, and zippy mode. (The latter not tested, though.)

Hi Harm
Today I tried Winboard 4.3.15 with engines without ownbook. After configurating the Winboard UCI option window everything work fine but there is the following problem: When I select again the same engine,the Winboard UCI option window configuration regarding not using the own books is not saved and the own books option are automatically selected again ???. Maybe I am making something wrong.
Please your comments,
Best regards,
Pablo Urzua

[H.G.Muller]

WinBoard does not remember the engines you used. So it also makes no sense to remember any options that are supposed to specifically apply to a certain engine, such as /fUCI or /fHasNoOwnBookUCI.

Come to think of it: there might be a reason why Winboard_x did not have the HasOwnBook options in the UCI menu: they cannot be sent to the engine anymore! There is no WB protocol command for this, so the options were sent to Polyglot by making a special polyglot.ini file for this session, before starting up Polyglot. But Polyglot reads such a file only once, at startup. So even if WinBoard would change the file, because you changed the option in the menu (which it doesn't), Polyglot would not read it again, unless WinBoard would start up a new Polyglot.

The options in the Options->UCI dialog are only effective for UCI engines for which WB prepares the polyglot.ini file anyway (i.e. engines run with the /firstIsUCI or /secondIsUCI options).

For now the HasOwwnBook buttons in the menu should only be thought off as controls that determine if WB engines use the GUI book or not. Now that WB has a GUI book, there is no need to run Polyglot with an external book as well. Polyglot should really be set up to never use its book, WinBoard will use it for it. So there really is no need to transmit the HasOwnBook options to Polyglot anymore.

[Pablo]

WinBoard does not remember the engines you used. So it also makes no sense to remember any options that are supposed to specifically apply to a certain engine, such as /fUCI or /fHasNoOwnBookUCI.

Come to think of it: there might be a reason why Winboard_x did not have the HasOwnBook options in the UCI menu: they cannot be sent to the engine anymore! There is no WB protocol command for this, so the options were sent to Polyglot by making a special polyglot.ini file for this session, before starting up Polyglot. But Polyglot reads such a file only once, at startup. So even if WinBoard would change the file, because you changed the option in the menu (which it doesn't), Polyglot would not read it again, unless WinBoard would start up a new Polyglot.

The options in the Options->UCI dialog are only effective for UCI engines for which WB prepares the polyglot.ini file anyway (i.e. engines run with the /firstIsUCI or /secondIsUCI options).

For now the HasOwwnBook buttons in the menu should only be thought off as controls that determine if WB engines use the GUI book or not. Now that WB has a GUI book, there is no need to run Polyglot with an external book as well. Polyglot should really be set up to never use its book, WinBoard will use it for it. So there really is no need to transmit the HasOwnBook options to Polyglot anymore.

Hi Harm,
Thanks for your very didactic explanations.
I wonder any how, why the default Winboard UCI option window have the own books options automatically selected ON if your Winboard version is primary intended to add a polyglot book for Winboard engines without own books. I would think it was better to have the default Winboard UCI window with the own books options not selected or OFF
Regards,
Pablo

[H.G.Muller]

In general I try to remain compatible with old behavior as much as possible. New options is fine, but there might be people that do not want them, and I would completely wreck their engine database if they suddenly had to add an option on all installed WB engines that they did not use before (because the default suited them).

If there are people that want to have these options switched on by default, they can always make a shortcut to start up WinBoard with these options:

~/winboard /fNoOwnBookUCI /sNoOwnBookUCI

[Pablo]

In general I try to remain compatible with old behavior as much as possible. New options is fine, but there might be people that do not want them, and I would completely wreck their engine database if they suddenly had to add an option on all installed WB engines that they did not use before (because the default suited them).

If there are people that want to have these options switched on by default, they can always make a shortcut to start up WinBoard with these options:

~/winboard /fNoOwnBookUCI /sNoOwnBookUCI

Helo H.G.
Thanks for the Winboard parameters to switch Off the Own book options.They work fine.
If I remember well,at your GUI the engines that have their own book read first their books if the option is selected ON, anyhow the UseBook is also ON.
If not, maybe you can give me the Winboard parameter to start Winboard only with the UseBook off.
Regards,
Pablo

[H.G.Muller]

Indeed, when the option HasOwnBook is switched on for the engine, that engine will never make use of the GUI book, no matter what the setting of /usePolyglotBook is. I think that it is only usefol to have the option /usePolyglotBook=false if their is no valid filename in the polyglotBook field, to avoid getting an error popup. Otherwise the use of the book is just as easily controlled (and more precisely, as you can do it for each engine individually) by the HasOwnBook options.

[Brian Richardson]

I have tried 4.3.15 with a Polyglot book on chessclub.com and it does not look for any book moves, at least with Tinker. It does work just fine offline.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian

[H.G.Muller]

If you play two WB engines against each other with otherwise the same settings, does it play the book moves then, for both players? Or is this something that is specific to ICS zippy play?

[edit]I tried it with Fairy-Max on ICC, and it definitely used book there. (With black, at least, but I have no reason to believe the color would make any difference.)

[Brian Richardson]

Engine v engine offline worked fine.
ICC with engine as black seemed to work also.
My first two tests just happened to be with the engine as white, so it looks like that is the problem.
Brian

[H.G.Muller]

OK, I will try if ICC wants to give me white. Problem is that I have only one ICC account, as a computer I cannot challenge humans, and that almost all computersthere refuse challeges by other computers.

[Brian Richardson]

My (C) computer account Tinker has no problem challenging my human account. Is there something different for you? Try unrated games. I'll also leave Tinker online for a while without "autocolor" so you should be able to specify black or white.