Winboard Forum

I have expanded the full suite to 50 positions (and thus a round 100 games), and revised a few of the pre-existing ones. Just to be clear, this is an Openings Suite, similar in purpose to the Nunn Suites 1 and 2, as well as the Noomen Select suite. It is meant to be used in test matches between engines, with NO BOOK used. The selection is designed to provide typical opening situations, testing the range of openings as well as types of positions (closed, open, hedgehog, stonewall, isolani, etc.). The positions were chosen and tested to allow several possible moves, so there shouldn't be any single move to find, nor should all (or almost all) engines choose the same continuation.

I have tested the Short Suite (25 positions) amply, and have enjoyed it, though it has highlighted a couple of problems that I have removed. One of these problems even includes a position that most engines insist on playing a positively dreadful move (Open Ruy Lopez).

Please note there are no gambits here. I plan another suite for this, but at the moment wanted a suite with both variety and standard opening choices.

If you have any comments regarding the choices, or any blatant omissions, please just say the word. For example, I discovered to my astonishment that I hadn't put a single Petroff in the first edition.


Albert

Changed:

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Sicilian, Paulsen"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B46"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 a6 *

[diag]r1bqkbnr/1p1p1ppp/p1n1p3/8/3NP3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq ?[/diag]

I removed 6.Be2 Qc7 so as to allow a little more flexibility in the continuations.

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Sicilian, Dragon"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B79"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3
O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.O-O-O Qa5 11.Bb3 Rfc8 12.h4 Ne5 13.Kb1 *

[diag]r1r3k1/pp1bppbp/3p1np1/q3n3/3NP2P/1BN1BP2/PPPQ2P1/1K1R3R b - -[/diag]

I had hoped for a more combative game, but somehow that wasn't what happened. Somehow they all managed to exchange the queens within 4 moves, so I added 13.Kb1 in the hopes they won't.

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Spanish, Open"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C82"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3
d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.c3 *

[diag]r2qkb1r/2p2ppp/p1n1b3/1p1pP3/4n3/1BP2N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq -[/diag]

Too many engines like the dreadful 9.Nc3 for either a short time or a long time, so that I saw it appearing far too often in my test matches.

Analysis by Fruit 2.2.1:

9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.a4 Na5 12.Qe2 c6 13.axb5 axb5 14.Ba3 0-0 15.Rfd1 Bxa3 16.Rxa3
= (0.08) Depth: 12/27 00:00:04 2526kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.a4 0-0 12.Qd3 Na5 13.axb5 axb5 14.Qxb5 c6 15.Qd3 Nxb3 16.Rxa8 Qxa8 17.cxb3
= (0.25) Depth: 13/30 00:00:09 5748kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.a4 0-0 12.Qd3 Na5 13.axb5 axb5 14.Qxb5 c6 15.Qd3 Nxb3 16.Rxa8 Qxa8 17.cxb3
= (0.25) Depth: 14/30 00:00:16 11139kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.a4 0-0 12.Qd3 Na5 13.axb5 axb5 14.Ba3 Nxb3 15.Bxe7 Qxe7 16.cxb3 b4 17.Rxa8 Rxa8
= (0.04) Depth: 15/32 00:00:28 20233kN


Analysis by Hiarcs 10:

9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Bc5 11.a4
= (-0.05) Depth: 12/26 00:00:12 2706kN
9.a4
= (-0.05) Depth: 12/31 00:00:14 3130kN
9.a4 b4 10.Be3 Nc5 11.Nbd2 Be7 12.Qe2 0-0 13.Rfd1 d4
= (-0.01) Depth: 12/31 00:00:18 3920kN
9.a4 b4 10.Be3 Nc5 11.Nbd2 Be7 12.Qe2 0-0 13.Bf4 Nxb3 14.Nxb3 Qd7 15.Qd3 f5
= (-0.07) Depth: 13/31 00:00:30 6565kN
9.Nc3
= (-0.01) Depth: 13/31 00:00:30 6565kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3
= (-0.01) Depth: 13/31 00:00:31 6673kN
9.Nc3
? (-0.26) Depth: 14/31 00:00:48 10489kN


Analysis by Rybka 1.01 Beta 13 32-bit:

9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.Qd3 Na5 12.Nd4 0-0
? (0.34) Depth: 10 00:00:03 191kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.Qd3 0-0 12.Re1 Qd7 13.Ng5
? (0.27) Depth: 11 00:00:06 366kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.Qd3 0-0 12.Bf4 Qd7 13.Rad1 Rad8
= (0.25) Depth: 12 00:00:12 744kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Be7 11.Qd3
? (0.27) Depth: 13 00:00:24 1533kN


Analysis by Shredder 8:

9.Nbd2 Be7 10.c3 0-0 11.Nd4 Nxd4 12.cxd4 f5 13.f3 Nxd2 14.Bxd2 c5 15.Rc1 cxd4 16.Rc6 Qd7 17.Qc2
= (0.03) Depth: 14/29 00:00:21 8316kN
9.a4 b4 10.Nbd2 Nc5 11.Ba2 Be7 12.Nb3 Nxa4 13.Nbd4 0-0 14.Nxc6 Nxb2
= (0.04) Depth: 14/31 00:00:23 9287kN
9.a4 b4 10.Nbd2 Nc5 11.Ba2 Be7 12.Nb3 Nxb3 13.Bxb3 Na5 14.Ba2 c5 15.Bf4 0-0
= (0.10) Depth: 14/31 00:00:24 10029kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Bc5 11.a4 0-0 12.axb5 axb5 13.Rxa8 Qxa8 14.Bxd5 Bxd5 15.Qxd5 Bxf2+ 16.Rxf2 Qa2 17.Qxa2
= (0.11) Depth: 14/37 00:00:31 12898kN
9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 Bc5 11.a4 Ne7 12.Nd4 0-0 13.axb5 axb5 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Be3 Bb6 16.Qa1
= (0.19) Depth: 14/37 00:00:33 14015kN

Since the idea isn't to see how many screw this up by playing 9.Nc3?, but how they handle this opening in general, I added 9.c3. In case you wonder, after 9.Nc3? just play Nxc3 10.bxc3 followed by Na5 and c5-c4, and the bishop is locked in forever.

I also removed the position:

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date ""]
[Round ""]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Queen's Gambit accepted"]
[Result ""]
[Eco "D27"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.O-O a6 7.a4 Nc6
8.Qe2 cxd4 9.Rd1 Be7 10.exd4 O-O 11.Nc3 *

[diag]r1bq1rk1/1p2bppp/p1n1pn2/8/P1BP4/2N2N2/1P2QPPP/R1BR2K1 b - -[/diag]

and replaced it with a Caro-Kann Panov, that could reach this, just as it could go in other directions.


New positions:

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Catalan, Accepted"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E04"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 *

[diag]rnbqkb1r/ppp2ppp/4pn2/8/2pP4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R b KQkq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Dutch, Stonewall"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A90"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.c4 d5 5.Nf3 c6 6.O-O Bd6 7.b3 Qe7 *

[diag]rnb1k2r/pp2q1pp/2pbpn2/3p1p2/2PP4/1P3NP1/P3PPBP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Spanish, Closed - Archangelsk"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C78"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 *

[diag]r1bqk2r/2pp1ppp/p1n2n2/1pb1p3/4P3/1B3N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Sicilian, Maroczy Bind"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B38"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 d6 7.Be2
Bg7 *

[diag]r1bqk2r/pp2ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PNP3/2N5/PP2BPPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Sicilian, Najdorf 6.f3 e5"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B80"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.f3 e5 7.Nb3
Be6 8.Be3 Be7 9.Qd2 *

[diag]rn1qk2r/1p2bppp/p2pbn2/4p3/4P3/1NN1BP2/PPPQ2PP/R3KB1R b KQkq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Gruenfeld, Fianchetto"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "D75"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nf3 d5 6.cxd5 Nxd5 7.O-O
Nb6 8.Nc3 Nc6 *

[diag]r1bq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Queen's Gambit, Semi-Slav - Meran"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "D47"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4
b5 8.Bd3 Bb7 9.O-O *

[diag]r2qkb1r/pb1n1ppp/2p1pn2/1p6/3P4/2NBPN2/PP3PPP/R1BQ1RK1 b kq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Petroff Defense"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C42"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 *

[diag]rnbqkb1r/ppp2ppp/8/3p4/3Pn3/3B1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B66"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2
a6 8.O-O-O h6 9.Be3 *

[diag]r1bqkb1r/1p3pp1/p1nppn1p/8/3NP3/2N1B3/PPPQ1PPP/2KR1B1R b kq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Caro-Kann, Classical"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B19"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.h4 h6 7.Nf3
Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 *

[diag]r2qkbnr/pp1nppp1/2p4p/7P/3P4/3Q1NN1/PPP2PP1/R1B1K2R b KQkq -[/diag]

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Silver Suite"]
[Black "Caro-Kann, Panov"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B14"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "0"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]
[Remark ""]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nf3 *

[diag]rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/4pn2/3p4/2PP4/2N2N2/PP3PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq -[/diag]

Thanks for the work and the suite.

Some thoughts:
should not a suite like this reflect the probability distribution of specific classes of openings to occur? Some time ago I looked at distribution of a big database, I think from CEGT or Eigenmann not sure anymore, and probabilities turned out like this:
14% A
25% B
16% C
18% D
15% E
If I am not completely mistaken Nunn for example tries to reflect this distribution more or less. Also Silver-full seems to be reflecting it (I did not do exact maths, though), but Silver-short clearly concentrates on A openings and clearly under-represents e.g. E and I believe also B and D. So it might be an idea to extract another subset from your base, "Silver-balanced", reflecting different themes and also following opening distribution.

Robert

Robert Allgeuer wrote:Thanks for the work and the suite.

Some thoughts:
should not a suite like this reflect the probability distribution of specific classes of openings to occur? Some time ago I looked at distribution of a big database, I think from CEGT or Eigenmann not sure anymore, and probabilities turned out like this:
14% A
25% B
16% C
18% D
15% E
If I am not completely mistaken Nunn for example tries to reflect this distribution more or less. Also Silver-full seems to be reflecting it (I did not do exact maths, though), but Silver-short clearly concentrates on A openings and clearly under-represents e.g. E and I believe also B and D. So it might be an idea to extract another subset from your base, "Silver-balanced", reflecting different themes and also following opening distribution.

Robert

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it. I'll take a look. Mind you, variety of position types is more important than ECO codes IMHO. Still I think you're right, and will create a new Short suite.

Albert

Albert Silver wrote:Interesting. I hadn't thought of it. I'll take a look. Mind you, variety of position types is more important than ECO codes IMHO.

Yes, I agree. In fact this is the reason why I wrote "different themes and also following opening distribution", which I am aware is a tougher requirement.

Robert