Winboard Forum

i removed most parts of the CEGT thread to a hidden forum.

Wael Deeb has been banned. If he like it bo be unbanned he should contact the moderators.

Please do not start new flames here.

Some messages has went lost during the split of the thread. Sorry for that but I didn't it intentionally.

If anybody has problems to login here the easiest way to solve the problem is to contact me or another moderator. This "posted in the name of ..." stuff is starting to annoy me.

I will comment on the whole thing more relaxed after consultation with the other moderators.

Volker

Volker Pittlik wrote:i removed most parts of the CEGT thread to a hidden forum.

Wael Deeb has been banned. If he like it bo be unbanned he should contact the moderators.

Please do not start new flames here.

Some messages has went lost during the split of the thread. Sorry for that but I didn't it intentionally.

If anybody has problems to login here the easiest way to solve the problem is to contact me or another moderator. This "posted in the name of ..." stuff is starting to annoy me.

I will comment on the whole thing more relaxed after consultation with the other moderators.

Volker

IMHO neither CEGT nor CCRL should be allowed to
dominate the WB forum like they did before.
Graham and Heinz together already have >3000 posts
in this new WB forum(Graham as a mod of CCC already has
a whole huge forum for his messages)
(Of course I am also posting about RWBC, but it is a real
WB tournament and much more important, a lot of my posts
are about tools, bugs, positions, WB improvements, helping
other people with WB problems and about chess etc.)
This is not intended as offense, but I think the sheer number
of posts of those groups leads to
1. discouraging other peoples tournaments/tests
2. battles between those big groups
3. involving the WB forum in battles in other fora

I am not sure if the incredible message numbers are healthy.
You see I already have drastically reduced my posts about RWBC,
because I didn't want to bore other people and myself
But as I said this is just my opinion.

Guenther

If you like Volker, I can stop posting my tournaments in the Winboard Forum and just post the weekly CCRL Rating Lists and Statistics update here (if that is still okay).
I really don't want to cause bad feelings here, but I suspect that I am.

No offense taken if this is what you prefer.
All I'd ask in such a circumstance is that my currently running tournament threads either be removed altogether or that I can post a new link for those wishing to continue following them elsewhere.

Regards, Graham.

Graham Banks wrote:If you like Volker, I can stop posting my tournaments in the Winboard Forum and just post the weekly CCRL Rating Lists and Statistics update here (if that is still okay).
I really don't want to cause bad feelings here, but I suspect that I am.

No offense taken if this is what you prefer.
All I'd ask in such a circumstance is that my currently running tournament threads either be removed altogether or that I can post a new link for those wishing to continue following them elsewhere.

Regards, Graham.

I'll post something about that issue later. In fact Guenther is not the only who concerns the quantity of post about certain topics.

Until I post I'll go outside and enjoy spring. Maybe this is a good idea for others too.

But I think we will find a solution that will satisfy everyone.

Volker

Graham Banks wrote:If you like Volker, I can stop posting my tournaments in the Winboard Forum and just post the weekly CCRL Rating Lists and Statistics update here (if that is still okay).
I really don't want to cause bad feelings here, but I suspect that I am.

No offense taken if this is what you prefer.
All I'd ask in such a circumstance is that my currently running tournament threads either be removed altogether or that I can post a new link for those wishing to continue following them elsewhere.

Regards, Graham.

Graham, I only posted _my_ opinion and even here I didn't say
a word neither about 'stop posting...' nor about 'removing...'.
No need to exaggerate what I wrote to start a constructive
discussion about some things, which seemed to have went
out of control. It should be possible to do this without too much
emotional ballast. It is a brainsport

Best regards,
Guenther

Guenther Simon wrote:Graham, I only posted _my_ opinion and even here I didn't say
a word neither about 'stop posting...' nor about 'removing...'.
No need to exaggerate what I wrote to start a constructive
discussion about some things, which seemed to have went
out of control. It should be possible to do this without too much
emotional ballast. It is a brainsport

Best regards,
Guenther

I'm okay Guenther. I'm calm and I'm not angry with anybody. I just don't want to be upsetting anybody here.

I just get the impression that I am though, especially as I've had a few altercations with Heinz here, although I challenge anybody to find an occasion where I was the instigator.

I can understand if some of the Winboard members feel "suffocated" by the fact I'm running three consecutive tournaments and running three separate threads, especially considering the fact that I'm not using the Winboard GUI currently.

I only want what is best for the Winboard community, that's all.

Regards, Graham.

Hi Volker, Roger and Guenther ,

IMHO neither CEGT nor CCRL should be allowed to
dominate the WB forum like they did before.
Graham and Heinz together already have >3000 posts
in this new WB forum(Graham as a mod of CCC already has
a whole huge forum for his messages)
(Of course I am also posting about RWBC, but it is a real
WB tournament and much more important, a lot of my posts
are about tools, bugs, positions, WB improvements, helping
other people with WB problems and about chess etc.)
This is not intended as offense, but I think the sheer number
of posts of those groups leads to
1. discouraging other peoples tournaments/tests
2. battles between those big groups
3. involving the WB forum in battles in other fora

I am not sure if the incredible message numbers are healthy.
You see I already have drastically reduced my posts about RWBC,
because I didn't want to bore other people and myself
But as I said this is just my opinion.

Guenther

Guenther, I think you are totally correct here and as you probably remember I already wrote before that this "mad" posting is too much and even disrespect for other testers, pushing them aside and discouraging them, like you wrote. I thought a lot in the past days. Here are my conclusions and I ask Volker, Roger and you if it is okay what I propose.

1. I do not have the time anymore to organize CEGT, but it will be done very probably by my friend Wilhelm Hudetz and all the old testers. Website and forum will stay the same and are updated and designed by Uschi. Admiring the fighting spirit from Wilhelm and the whole team I will do my best to support them with games. As I am not at home most of the week to be able to set up constantly shorter matches and tournaments this will be games with tournament time control 40/120 exclusively.

2. The Winboard Forum is the only one I really love (except our own) and I would like to get the permission to post two times weekly (exactly on Monday and Friday) some results. Wilhelm will give updates for the 40/40 and 40/4 lists all two weeks, that means weekly alternating the two lists. Would this still be too much?

3. I will never again respond to CCRL people and their "hardcore" supporters, because it always ends in quarrels. Wilhelm can do this better as he is a very calm guy. I ask all people from CCRL not to answer to this or any of my result reports. I cannot prohibit it, so it is just a request and I will not answer. So maybe it can be respected.

4. I will of course also not provoke this testers, even if the things they are writing are completely absurd in my opinion.

Best Regards
Heinz

Heinz van Kempen wrote:...
2. The Winboard Forum is the only one I really love (except our own) and I would like to get the permission to post two times weekly (exactly on Monday and Friday) some results. Wilhelm will give updates for the 40/40 and 40/4 lists all two weeks, that means weekly alternating the two lists. Would this still be too much?

We dicussed this and we also found possible solutions. In general I agree with your suggestion, but lets keep something in mind.

- In general all the tournament results are on topic and belong in the tournament sub forum

- OTOH some people complaint about the ammount of postings and that tournaments with lot of output became dominating (especially if the threaded view is in use).

- It was also my mistake not to react early enough.

We have an agreement with another tester group with a lot of output that they will not post all messages in a single thread. We hope this will improve the clarity of the tournament subforum (for smaller tournaments that kind of posting is still OK). Maybe you can try that too.

Another alternative would be separate subforums for each group with a lot of output (as we had for AEGT), but to have to much subforums is not so good too.

Heinz van Kempen wrote:...3. I will never again respond to CCRL people and their "hardcore" supporters...

Heinz, I don't know what happened and I even wouldn't like to know. We already took action against a "supporter". There are always people around who enjoy if people are in quarrel and even put more oil in the fire.

After a while (shorter or longer) it is always possible to settle a difference (even FQ and I could).

Regards

Volker

Hi Volker ,

We dicussed this and we also found possible solutions. In general I agree with your suggestion, but lets keep something in mind.

- In general all the tournament results are on topic and belong in the tournament sub forum

- OTOH some people complaint about the ammount of postings and that tournaments with lot of output became dominating (especially if the threaded view is in use).

- It was also my mistake not to react early enough.

We have an agreement with another tester group with a lot of output that they will not post all messages in a single thread. We hope this will improve the clarity of the tournament subforum (for smaller tournaments that kind of posting is still OK). Maybe you can try that too.

okay, so I give always a new thread (posting) when reporting my results twice a week?

Another alternative would be separate subforums for each group with a lot of output (as we had for AEGT), but to have to much subforums is not so good too.

For some reason I have still nice memories when AEGT is mentioned. Let me greet all the old testers here, who helped to create the first group project in Winboard Forum.

Heinz, I don't know what happened and I even wouldn't like to know. We already took action against a "supporter". There are always people around who enjoy if people are in quarrel and even put more oil in the fire.

After a while (shorter or longer) it is always possible to settle a difference (even FQ and I could).

Volker, it is somehow funny. When I read postings in former years involving FQ, some other people and you I shook my head and could not understand the emotional stress caused. Now I have learnt what it means . I think time will always heal wounds. You will not become good friend with those who shed hatred upon you (and maybe you on them), but see all things bemused and relaxed.

Best Regards
Heinz

Heinz van Kempen wrote:...
okay, so I give always a new thread (posting) when reporting my results twice a week?

Yes, let's try it this way to find a new beginning. After a week or so we can think again if the format must be changed to get a good balance between up-to-dateness and readability.

maybe we shold also change to German and e-mail

Volker

maybe we shold also change to German and e-mail

Hi Voker ,

thanks, I will sent an email to you tomorrow and will see if my German is still good enough .

Best Regards
Heinz

Heinz van Kempen wrote:
Volker, it is somehow funny. When I read postings in former years involving FQ, some other people and you I shook my head and could not understand the emotional stress caused. Now I have learnt what it means . I think time will always heal wounds. You will not become good friend with those who shed hatred upon you (and maybe you on them), but see all things bemused and relaxed.

Best Regards
Heinz

I would like nothing more than to have peace with you Heinz and to be on friendly terms as in the past.
Hopefully this is sooner rather than later (like now if you wish).
In the meantime I will respect your wishes not to respond to any CEGT postings.

All the best,
Graham.

Hi Graham ,

I would also like to come to peace with you and will write an email tomorrow to you and Volker.

After more thinking I am beginning to understand that the last troubles were not really caused by you, but that it was one other guy who made me really angry with all his hatred.

We will certainly "shake hands" soon and come back to at least normal relations, so please give me some time.

Best Regards
Heinz

Hi,

I agree with Volker.
Each time to each topic its better to try to sort out a problem (or to solve a problem).

Sometimes not possible for me!
Sometimes in an unusal manner possible for me!
Sometimes I have in my brain that I should thinking about own things I do in the past (not all was right).

I will say we all solved conflicts with differents way of doing.

Today I don't have a good feeling (other reason). I think its an artistic not to be annoyed about known persons in computer chess area. To find displayment in own activities is on other topic but helps a lot.

But in fact I am computer chess tired. On the other hand I have enough reasons to find new motivation (I download for minutes Glaurung and will look now in Shredder 10.0 and Ktulu Beta).

And now let us play chess Volker.

Regards
Frank

This words cost me a lot of (quite an effort) power to a late hour and I hope this English is good enough to understand it.

PS:
Oh, I can edit my spelling ... I try it out (qu"e"te to quite)

Frank Quisinsky wrote:Hi,

I agree with Volker.
Each time to each topic its better to try to sort out a problem (or to solve a problem).

Sometimes not possible for me!
Sometimes in an unusal manner possible for me!
Sometimes I have in my brain that I should thinking about own things I do in the past (not all was right).

I will say we all solved conflicts with differents way of doing.

Today I don't have a good feeling (other reason). I think its an artistic not to be annoyed about known persons in computer chess area. To find displayment in own activities is on other topic but helps a lot.

But in fact I am computer chess tired. On the other hand I have enough reasons to find new motivation (I download for minutes Glaurung and will look now in Shredder 10.0 and Ktulu Beta).

And now let us play chess Volker.

Regards
Frank

This words cost me a lot of (quete an effort) power to a late hour and I hope this English is good enough to understand it.

Hello Frank Quisinsky!!!!

My heart almost stopped beating!

Welcome to the Winboard Forum (again....smile) and I hope you will stick around for a while....

With this maturity and willingness to move on I believe now that we may expect to hear something soon about peace in the war torn spots in the world...

It can be done, it must be done.

Good to hear from you again Frank.

Really.

Later.

Ps. Stop beating down your English!