Winboard Forum

I like to play blindfold against average engines, as a training. For this matter I am using Arena, which has the nice feature of announcing moves.

The engine is given 50 minutes plus 10 seconds increment for the whole game, and I am given unlimited time, since I am doing other things while playing the game.

Yesterday Schola (Jim's compile) claimed for a win on time, and I was unable to finish the game. Engines usually let the GUI care for that task.

This may cause an issue as well if you play auto232 games : the engine may claim for a win on time when the opponent did not actually exceed the time allowed (transmission delay).

What is your opinion on this behaviour ? I would rather have this feature removed.

Olivier

Olivier Deville wrote:I like to play blindfold against average engines, as a training. For this matter I am using Arena, which has the nice feature of announcing moves.

The engine is given 50 minutes plus 10 seconds increment for the whole game, and I am given unlimited time, since I am doing other things while playing the game.

Yesterday Schola (Jim's compile) claimed for a win on time, and I was unable to finish the game. Engines usually let the GUI care for that task.

This may cause an issue as well if you play auto232 games : the engine may claim for a win on time when the opponent did not actually exceed the time allowed (transmission delay).

What is your opinion on this behaviour ? I would rather have this feature removed.

Olivier

Hello Olivier,

I hate to speak for H.G. but the gui should record the claim, check the situation and if there is time on the opponent's clock, refuse to honour this claim.

At an extreme, the gui should end the game and award the win to the opponent.

An engine should never be allowed to do what Schola did here.

Just my two cents.

Later.

Roger Brown wrote:
Hello Olivier,

I hate to speak for H.G. but the gui should record the claim, check the situation and if there is time on the opponent's clock, refuse to honour this claim.

At an extreme, the gui should end the game and award the win to the opponent.

An engine should never be allowed to do what Schola did here.

Just my two cents.

Later.

H.G. ? on an Arena issue ?
Anyway, ChessGUI would end the game and declare Schola the loser in this scenario.

Matthias.

Hi Roger and Matthias

I just want to be able to continue the game even when my flag fell. You can set up Arena this way.

According to FIDE rules, the player must claim for a win on time in rapid play (the arbiter has no right to do so). In standard time control, the arbiter will tell when the flag falls.

As always, we must adapt these rules to computer chess play. Most engines do not claim for a win on time, and rely on the GUI for that matter. What says the winboard protocol ?

Olivier

It is a direct violaton of WB protocol for the engine to claim wins on time:

WB protocol specs wrote:RESULT {COMMENT}
When your engine detects that the game has ended by rule, your engine must output a line of the form "RESULT {comment}" (without the quotes), where RESULT is a PGN result code (1-0, 0-1, or 1/2-1/2), and comment is the reason. Here "by rule" means that the game is definitely over because of what happened on the board. In normal chess, this includes checkmate, stalemate, triple repetition, the 50 move rule, or insufficient material; it does not include loss on time or the like. Examples:

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
H.G. ? on an Arena issue ?
Anyway, ChessGUI would end the game and declare Schola the loser in this scenario.

Matthias.

Hello Matthias,

Naaah, H.G. on a Winboard protocol issue.



Later.

Roger Brown wrote:

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
H.G. ? on an Arena issue ?
Anyway, ChessGUI would end the game and declare Schola the loser in this scenario.

Matthias.

Hello Matthias,

Naaah, H.G. on a Winboard protocol issue.

Later.

OK, I now see the link.
My approach in ChessGUI did not even consider the WB protocol.

Matthias.

Olivier Deville wrote:Hi Roger and Matthias

I just want to be able to continue the game even when my flag fell. You can set up Arena this way.

Olivier

Arena has the right to that option.
No engine has the right to claim that the opponent has lost on time.
ChessGUI would end the game after any "end of game" claim because it does not expect the claiming engine to be able to play on.

Matthias.

It's been a while since I checked into this forum. This is strange. Schola doesn't track opponent's time. Nor could I find any way for it to claim a loss on time - in fact in game.h:

Code: Select all

typedef enum
{
   Invalid,              // The (opponent's) move was not valid
   Valid,             // The move was OK and has been made
   Resign,             // Computer resigns - Not currently implemented
   WhiteMate,          // White mated black
   BlackMate,          // Black mated white
   Stalemate,
   FiftyMovesDraw,
   MaterialDraw,
   RepetitionDraw,
   Terminated,         // The search was terminated (probably by the user)
   PonderFailedResult,
   PonderFoundMove     // The ponder didn't find anything else to analyze
                       // (probably due to a mate, etc.)
} MoveResultT;


Andy.

plattyaj wrote:It's been a while since I checked into this forum. This is strange. Schola doesn't track opponent's time. Nor could I find any way for it to claim a loss on time - in fact in game.h:

Code: Select all

typedef enum
{
   Invalid,              // The (opponent's) move was not valid
   Valid,             // The move was OK and has been made
   Resign,             // Computer resigns - Not currently implemented
   WhiteMate,          // White mated black
   BlackMate,          // Black mated white
   Stalemate,
   FiftyMovesDraw,
   MaterialDraw,
   RepetitionDraw,
   Terminated,         // The search was terminated (probably by the user)
   PonderFailedResult,
   PonderFoundMove     // The ponder didn't find anything else to analyze
                       // (probably due to a mate, etc.)
} MoveResultT;


Andy.

Hi Andy

I did not keep any log of this game. Possibly it was my mistake, who knows

Welcome back anyway

Olivier

Olivier Deville wrote:I like to play blindfold against average engines, as a training. For this matter I am using Arena, which has the nice feature of announcing moves.

The engine is given 50 minutes plus 10 seconds increment for the whole game, and I am given unlimited time, since I am doing other things while playing the game.

Yesterday Schola (Jim's compile) claimed for a win on time, and I was unable to finish the game. Engines usually let the GUI care for that task.

This may cause an issue as well if you play auto232 games : the engine may claim for a win on time when the opponent did not actually exceed the time allowed (transmission delay).

What is your opinion on this behaviour ? I would rather have this feature removed.

Olivier

Shame on Schola....she's cheating
Dr.D