Winboard Forum

Posted: **01 Apr 2013, 09:10**

Happy Easter!

This engine (PM1016) does not want to move under WB, which is odd because it works all right under Arena. I remember it had to be given its books in their folder for it to work properly but that is settled now. Still, no move under WB.
Here is a snip from WB debug, I don't think it will be of much help but I attached it anyway. The default book of WB was used, all the other engines are OK with that. Same position twice per pairing in the same cycle.
As the engine does not send an error message maybe it is not sent an important command.

I attach an Arena debug as well. It seems to me Arena feeds the engine with all the book moves in one go, while WB does it in pairs. Can it be the difference?

Best wishes,
Gábor

cycle=11, round=14, pairing=0 curGame=23
Reset(0, 1) from gameMode 8
recognized 'normal' (-1) as variant normal
GameEnds(0, (null), 2)
shuffleOpenings = 0
578284 >first : new
random
578284 >first : level 40 2:35 0
578284 >first : post
578284 >first : hard
578284 >first : easy
578284 >first : force
StartChildProcess (dir="C:\Sakk\WB-engines\PostModernist") PostModernist_1016.exe xboard
nice engine proc to 10
578804 >second: xboard
protover 2
578804 <second: feature done=0
578804 >second: accepted done
578804 <second: feature myname="PMv1016"
578804 >second: accepted myname
578804 <second: feature done=1
578804 >second: accepted done
578814 >second: new
random
578814 >second: level 40 2:35 0
578814 >second: post
578814 >second: hard
578814 >second: easy
578814 >second: force
New game (23): OliThink 5.3.2-PMv1016 (w)
580284 >first : computer
580284 >second: computer
580284 >first : time 15500
580284 >first : otim 15500
book key = 463b96181691fc9c
book move field = 666
book hit = c2c4
580284 >first : force
580284 >first : c2c4
nps: w=-1, b=-1
580294 >second: time 15500
580294 >second: otim 15499
book key = ca18093c559e579b
book move field = 3429
book hit = f7f5
580294 >second: force
580294 >second: c2c4
580294 >second: f7f5
silence
Interrupting first
580374 >first : time 15499
580374 >first : otim 15492
book key = 5e776fa5eb167a45
book move field = 82
book hit = b1c3
580374 >first : f7f5
580374 >first : b1c3
silence
Interrupting second
580454 >second: time 15492
580454 >second: otim 15491
book key = a5e0770729f4f89c
book hit = (NULL)
580454 >second: b1c3
580454 >second: go
silence
GameEnds(25, White wins on time, 4)
GE(25, White wins on time, 4) bare king k=16 color=0
Interrupting first
735388 >first : result 1-0 {White wins on time}
Interrupting second
735388 >second: result 1-0 {White wins on time}
735388 >first : force
735388 >second: force
results = '=+==+--+=+=--+-=-=-==--=+-+-+-+-+=-==-+=+=+=-+------==--++-+===-+++---+++-+-=+--=++-++-=-++-=--+=+--=-+++-=-=--==--=-----+=----+++-=+---=++---+---=---+++++++-+-+-+-=+==-+=+-+-++=+=+-++-+++++--++++++++=+=-+++-++==+---=-+-+---+=-+++=-++=++-+--+-=++=--++=---++--==---++++==++++++-+=+=+=--=++-=-++-+--=-+-----+--=+=++----+++++=--+--++==+-++--++-=+--=++-+---=-=++=+---+=-+=+-+-+-+-++-=-+----+++=--+-+=+==--+==+-+-+--==-+++=++++++----++-+==+-+++--++-+-*'
OliThink 5.3.2 64-bit\012Amy 0.8.7b\012Capture R01\012Comet B.50\012Der Bringer 1.9\012Dragon 4.6\012Gosu 0.16\012Ifrit m1.8 64-bit\012Leila 0.53h\012Muse 0.899b\012Myrddin 0.86 64-bit\012Nebula 1.0 64-bit\012Patzer 3.80\012Phalanx XXIII\012pikoSzachy 4.0\012PostModernist 1016\012RomiChess p3L 64-bit\012Simplex 0.9.8 64-bit\012Terra 3.4\012The Crazy Bishop 0052\012
pick next game from '=+==+--+=+=--+-=-=-==--=+-+-+-+-+=-==-+=+=+=-+------==--++-+===-+++---+++-+-=+--=++-++-=-++-=--+=+--=-+++-=-=--==--=-----+=----+++-=+---=++---+---=---+++++++-+-+-+-=+==-+=+-+-++=+=+-++-+++++--++++++++=+=-+++-++==+---=-+-+---+=-+++=-++=++-+--+-=++=--++=---++--==---++++==++++++-+=+=+=--=++-=-++-+--=-+-----+--=+=++----+++++=--+--++==+-++--++-=+--=++-+---=-=++=+---+=-+=+-+-+-+-++-=-+----+++=--+-+=+==--+==+-+-+--==-+++=++++++----++-+==+-+++--++-+-+': 447
Reserved, next=447, nr=446
cycle=11, round=14, pairing=0 curGame=24
Reset(0, 1) from gameMode 8
recognized 'normal' (-1) as variant normal
GameEnds(0, (null), 2)
shuffleOpenings = 0
735404 >first : new
random
735404 >first : level 40 2:35 0
735404 >first : post
735404 >first : hard
735404 >first : easy
735404 >first : force
735404 >second: new
random
735404 >second: level 40 2:35 0
735404 >second: post
735404 >second: hard
735404 >second: easy
735404 >second: force
New game (24): OliThink 5.3.2-PMv1016 (b)
737404 >first : computer
737404 >second: computer
737404 >second: black
737404 >second: time 15500
737404 >second: otim 15500
737404 >second: white
book key = 463b96181691fc9c
book move field = 666
book hit = c2c4
737404 >second: force
737404 >second: c2c4
nps: w=-1, b=-1
737424 >first : time 15500
737424 >first : otim 15498
book key = ca18093c559e579b
book move field = 3429
book hit = f7f5
737424 >first : force
737424 >first : c2c4
737424 >first : f7f5
silence
Interrupting second
737504 >second: time 15498
737504 >second: otim 15492
book key = 5e776fa5eb167a45
book move field = 82
book hit = b1c3
737504 >second: f7f5
737504 >second: b1c3
silence
Interrupting first
737584 >first : time 15492
737584 >first : otim 15490
book key = a5e0770729f4f89c
book hit = (NULL)
737584 >first : b1c3
737584 >first : go
silence
737684 <first : 1 8 0 28 e7e6
737684 <first : 2 -34 0 102 e7e6 d2d3
737684 <first : 3 16 0 394 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4
737684 <first : 4 -38 0 2818 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4 c1d2
737684 <first : 5 -2 0 6674 e7e6 d2d4 g8f6 c1f4 f8b4
737684 <first : 6 -28 2 36754 g8f6 d2d3 e7e5 e2e4 f5f4 d1a4
737684 <first : 7 -24 6 110289 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5 d1a4 c8d7 a4b4 b8c6 b4b7
737764 <first : 8 -38 17 306050 g8f6 d2d4 e7e6 c1f4 b8c6 g1f3 f6e4 a2a4
737874 <first : 9 -27 29 515909 g8f6 d2d4 e7e6 c1f4 b8c6 e2e3 f8d6 d4d5 d6f4
738174 <first : 10 -18 59 1112902 g8f6 d2d4 e7e6 d1a4 f8e7 c1f4 b8c6 g1f3 f6e4 h2h4
738914 <first : 11 -23 132 2548223 g8f6 d2d4 e7e6 c1f4 f6h5 f4d2 b8c6 e2e4 g7g6 g1f3 h5f6
740191 <first : 12 -21 260 5183742 g8f6 d2d4 e7e6 c1f4 f8b4 a2a3 b4c3 b2c3 f6e4 d1b3 g7g5 f4e5 h8g8
740191 <first : move g8f6
Interrupting second
740191 >second: time 15490
740191 >second: otim 15231
book key = fe0e43f2840eb90a
book move field = 918
book hit = g2g3
740191 >second: g8f6
740191 >second: g2g3
silence
Interrupting first
740291 >first : time 15231
740291 >first : otim 15480
book key = d2e8f8b364d96132
book hit = (NULL)
740291 >first : g2g3
silence
740361 <first :
740371 <first : kibitz W: -21 Nodes: 3721940 QNodes: 1461802 Evals: 2337438 cs: 260 knps: 1987
740371 <first : 1 23 0 26 e7e6
740371 <first : 2 -19 0 91 e7e6 d2d4
740371 <first : 3 35 0 309 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4
740371 <first : 4 -19 0 2670 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4 c1d2
740371 <first : 5 5 0 6653 e7e6 d2d4 d7d5 c4c5 b8c6
740371 <first : 6 -14 2 43260 e7e5 g1f3 e5e4 f3d4 d7d5 e2e3
740371 <first : 7 -7 6 108042 e7e6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4 b8c6 c4c5 f6e4
740561 <first : 8 -16 27 544662 d7d5 c4d5 f6d5 f1g2 e7e6 c3d5 e6d5 d2d4
740971 <first : 9 -5 64 1291160 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4 f1g2 f6e4 c1d2 e4d2 d1d2 b8c6
741681 <first : 10 -18 123 2531330 e7e6 d2d4 f8b4 f1g2 b8c6 d4d5 e6d5 c4d5 c6e5 c1d2
744041 <first : 11 -9 375 7901193 d7d5 c4d5 f6d5 f1g2 e7e6 c3d5 e6d5 d1a4 c8d7 a4d4 c7c6 b2b4
744051 <first : move d7d5
Interrupting second
744051 >second: time 15480
744051 >second: otim 14855
book key = 5782daa7f80d2f14
book hit = (NULL)
744051 >second: d7d5
744051 >second: go
silence
744131 <first :
744131 <first : kibitz W: -9 Nodes: 5328884 QNodes: 2572309 Evals: 3171597 cs: 375 knps: 2106
GameEnds(26, Black wins on time, 4)
GE(26, Black wins on time, 4) bare king k=16 color=22
Interrupting first
898858 >first : result 0-1 {Black wins on time}
Interrupting second
898858 >second: result 0-1 {Black wins on time}
898858 >first : force
898858 >second: force
results = '=+==+--+=+=--+-=-=-==--=+-+-+-+-+=-==-+=+=+=-+------==--++-+===-+++---+++-+-=+--=++-++-=-++-=--+=+--=-+++-=-=--==--=-----+=----+++-=+---=++---+---=---+++++++-+-+-+-=+==-+=+-+-++=+=+-++-+++++--++++++++=+=-+++-++==+---=-+-+---+=-+++=-++=++-+--+-=++=--++=---++--==---++++==++++++-+=+=+=--=++-=-++-+--=-+-----+--=+=++----+++++=--+--++==+-++--++-=+--=++-+---=-=++=+---+=-+=+-+-+-+-++-=-+----+++=--+-+=+==--+==+-+-+--==-+++=++++++----++-+==+-+++--++-+-+*'
OliThink 5.3.2 64-bit\012Amy 0.8.7b\012Capture R01\012Comet B.50\012Der Bringer 1.9\012Dragon 4.6\012Gosu 0.16\012Ifrit m1.8 64-bit\012Leila 0.53h\012Muse 0.899b\012Myrddin 0.86 64-bit\012Nebula 1.0 64-bit\012Patzer 3.80\012Phalanx XXIII\012pikoSzachy 4.0\012PostModernist 1016\012RomiChess p3L 64-bit\012Simplex 0.9.8 64-bit\012Terra 3.4\012The Crazy Bishop 0052\012
pick next game from '=+==+--+=+=--+-=-=-==--=+-+-+-+-+=-==-+=+=+=-+------==--++-+===-+++---+++-+-=+--=++-++-=-++-=--+=+--=-+++-=-=--==--=-----+=----+++-=+---=++---+---=---+++++++-+-+-+-=+==-+=+-+-++=+=+-++-+++++--++++++++=+=-+++-++==+---=-+-+---+=-+++=-++=++-+--+-=++=--++=---++--==---++++==++++++-+=+=+=--=++-=-++-+--=-+-----+--=+=++----+++++=--+--++==+-++--++-=+--=++-+---=-=++=+---+=-+=+-+-+-+-++-=-+----+++=--+-+=+==--+==+-+-+--==-+++=++++++----++-+==+-+++--++-+-+-': 448
898858 >second: quit
Unload second

Here is a debug from Arena:

Code: Select all: 2013-04-01 10:05:31,921-->1:quit 2013-04-01 10:05:32,108*1*killing child process: conime.exe 2013-04-01 10:05:32,420*1*--------------------Starting engine 1 PostModernist 1016-------------------- 2013-04-01 10:05:32,420*1*Configured Engine 1 Type: WB2 2013-04-01 10:05:32,420*1*Engine 1 dir: C:\Sakk\WB-engines\PostModernist 2013-04-01 10:05:32,420*1*Engine 1 commandline: C:\Sakk\WB-engines\PostModernist\PostModernist_1016.exe xboard 2013-04-01 10:05:32,467*1*Engine 1 ProcessID: 5408 2013-04-01 10:05:32,467*1*Engine 1 Prio:32 ThreadPrio:0 2013-04-01 10:05:32,467-->1:xboard 2013-04-01 10:05:32,467-->1:protover 2 2013-04-01 10:05:33,231<--1:feature done=0 2013-04-01 10:05:33,231-->1:accepted done 2013-04-01 10:05:33,231<--1:feature myname="PMv1016" 2013-04-01 10:05:33,231<--1:feature done=1 2013-04-01 10:05:33,231-->1:accepted done 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:new 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:random 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:level 40 3 0 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:post 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:hard 2013-04-01 10:05:33,512-->1:easy 2013-04-01 10:05:53,184**----------New game---2013-04-01 10:05:53,184 H ------------- 2013-04-01 10:05:53,184-->1:level 40 3 0 2013-04-01 10:05:53,184-->1:new 2013-04-01 10:05:53,184-->1:random 2013-04-01 10:05:53,184-->1:level 40 3 0 2013-04-01 10:05:53,199-->1:post 2013-04-01 10:05:53,199-->1:hard 2013-04-01 10:05:53,199-->1:easy 2013-04-01 10:05:53,215**Loading book: C:\Sakk\Arena\Books\HS-12moves.abk 2013-04-01 10:06:03,636*1*Start calc, move no: 1 2013-04-01 10:06:03,651*1*HS-12moves.abk: 2013-04-01 10:06:03,651*1*c7c5 2013-04-01 10:06:07,676*1*Start calc, move no: 3 2013-04-01 10:06:07,676*1*HS-12moves.abk: 2013-04-01 10:06:07,676*1*d7d6 2013-04-01 10:06:12,372*1*Start calc, move no: 5 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:level 40 3 0 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:new 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:random 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:level 40 3 0 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:post 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:hard 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:easy 2013-04-01 10:06:12,574-->1:force 2013-04-01 10:06:12,793-->1:e2e4 2013-04-01 10:06:12,793-->1:c7c5 2013-04-01 10:06:12,793-->1:g1f3 2013-04-01 10:06:12,793-->1:d7d6 2013-04-01 10:06:12,793-->1:a2a4 2013-04-01 10:06:12,855-->1:time 18000 2013-04-01 10:06:12,855-->1:otim 17167 2013-04-01 10:06:12,855-->1:black 2013-04-01 10:06:12,855-->1:go 2013-04-01 10:06:12,871<--1: 1. -13 0 64 3...Bg4 2013-04-01 10:06:12,886<--1: 2. -24 0 155 3...Nc6 2013-04-01 10:06:12,902<--1: 3. -61 0 734 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 2013-04-01 10:06:12,902<--1: 4. -27 0 2224 3...Nc6 4.Bb5 Bg4 2013-04-01 10:06:12,902<--1: 5. -54 0 7251 3...Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 2013-04-01 10:06:12,918<--1: 6. -29 0 17382 3...Nc6 4.Bb5 Bg4 5.h3 Bd7 2013-04-01 10:06:12,964<--1: 7. -47 0 48624 3...Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bb5 Bg4 6.O-O e6 2013-04-01 10:06:13,120<--1: 8. -36 0 137453 3...Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bb5 Bg4 6.O-O e6 2013-04-01 10:06:13,760<--1: 9. -51 0 504829 3...Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Be2 Bg4 6.h3 Bd7 7.d4 2013-04-01 10:06:15,944<--1:10. -41 3 1622048 3...Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d5 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.Nc3 d4 8.Ne2 2013-04-01 10:06:19,236<--1:tellics whisper PM: depth=10 score= -0.41 time=6 nps=500002 egtbprobes=0 egtbhits=0 2013-04-01 10:06:19,236<--1:3. ... b8c6 2013-04-01 10:06:19,236*1*Found move:Nb8-c6

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 08:05**

One difference I notice is that it is told to play 40 moves / 3 min in Arena, and 40 moves / 2:35 in WinBoard. Maybe it chokes on the minutes:seconds time control in the level command?

I don't think the way the moves are fed is really different. In the XBoard debug you just see more of what it does to the other engine in the mean time, but that should be unknowable to Post Modernist. If you only filter out the 'second:' lines it looks pretty much the same, a force command, a number of moves, and a 'go'. A difference is that Arena sends a 'black' command before the 'go'. Not sure why it does that; engines should know by themselves that after a move, the other side gets the turn.

The WB protocol specs furthermore lists the 'black' command as deprecated; WinBoard would never use it, and in cases for which this command would be really needed (namely when setting up a position through the 'edit' command, where the engine cannot know who has the move), it avoids it by sending a dummy move a2a3 to make it blacks turn. (And I had to abandon that strategy for variants where a2a3 is not a legal move in the initial position, such as in Xiangqi!)

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 12:14**

1 PostModernist's configuration file MUST be in this directory. This file is
called pm.ini and cannot be renamed or removed.

2 There MUST be a subdirectory called book (this will contain the book files)

3 There MUST be a subdirectory called tmp (this is used when creating book files)

link to homepage

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/postmodernist/

regards
mike

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 12:26**

To HG: Even if I set the TC to whole minutes, PM won't move.

To Mike: pm.ini is in place. There is no tmp subdirectory but PM works all right under Arena even without it.

A guess is that under WB PM forgets the previous moves it was fed with and thinks that my move is illegal. Only it does not complain.

Something new: If under WB I set the opening book to the empty book, PM works all right. It makes its first few moves from its own small book (preferred.bin), then begins to think when out of book. Even with a TC of 2:35.
Here is a small partial debug to demonstrate it:

StartChildProcess (dir="E:\Sakk\WB-engines\PostModernist") PostModernist_1016.exe xboard
nice engine proc to 10
21141 >first : xboard
protover 2
21141 <first : feature done=0
21141 >first : accepted done
21141 <first : feature myname="PMv1016"
21141 >first : accepted myname
21141 <first : feature done=1
21141 >first : accepted done
recognized 'normal' (-1) as variant normal
21156 >first : new
random
21156 >first : level 40 2:35 0
21156 >first : post
21156 >first : hard
21156 >first : easy
Reset(1, 1) from gameMode 0
recognized 'normal' (-1) as variant normal
GameEnds(0, (null), 2)
27672 >first : force
shuffleOpenings = 0
27672 >first : new
random
27672 >first : level 40 2:35 0
27672 >first : post
27672 >first : hard
27672 >first : easy
nps: w=-1, b=-1
nps: w=-1, b=-1
40641 >first : time 15500
40641 >first : otim 15500
book key = 823c9b50fd114196
book hit = (NULL)
40656 >first : e2e4
40734 <first : tellics whisper PM: depth=0 score= +0.00 time=0 nps=0 egtbprobes=0 egtbhits=0
40734 <first : 1. ... c7c5
silence
Interrupting first
43250 >first : time 15490
43250 >first : otim 15248
book key = bf29a6086ab02bd6
book hit = (NULL)
43250 >first : g1f3
43359 <first : tellics whisper PM: depth=0 score= +0.00 time=0 nps=0 egtbprobes=0 egtbhits=0
43359 <first : 2. ... e7e6
silence
Interrupting first
44859 >first : time 15479
44859 >first : otim 15098
book key = 14668bf6291fdef2
book hit = (NULL)
44859 >first : f3e5
44969 <first : 1. -24 0 62 3...Nf6
44969 <first : 2. -24 0 93 3...Nf6
44969 <first : 3. -36 0 430 3...Nc6 4.Qh5 Nxe5 5.Qxe5
44969 <first : 4. -29 0 1534 3...Nc6 4.Qh5 g6
44969 <first : 5. -23 0 5033 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Nc4
44969 <first : 6. -21 0 16164 3...Nc6 4.Nxc6 dxc6 5.Nc3 Bd6
45016 <first : 7. -20 0 53515 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Nxc6 dxc6 6.e5 Nd5
45375 <first : 8. -17 0 188770 3...Nc6 4.Nxc6 dxc6 5.Nc3 Bd6 6.Bc4 Nf6
46203 <first : 9. -7 1 532847 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Nxc6 dxc6 6.Bc4 Bd6 7.O-O O-O
48422 <first : 10. -7 3 1375661 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.d4 O-O 6.Be3 cxd4 7.Bxd4 Nc6 8.Bc4 Nxd4 9.Qxd4
55844 <first : tellics whisper PM: depth=10 score= -0.09 time=10 nps=373523 egtbprobes=0 egtbhits=0
55844 <first : 3. ... g8f6
silence
GameEnds(28, xboard exit, 2)
Interrupting first
110484 >first : result * {xboard exit}
110500 >first : force
110500 >first : quit
name = '%APPDATA%\winboard47.ini', expanded name = 'C:\Documents and Settings\Szőts Gábor\Application Data\winboard47.ini'

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 14:28**

wbec engine details page says xboard "no"but gives winboard.ini lines:

WinBoard.ini lines:
"PostModernist xboard" /fd=d:\Winboard\PostModernist
"PostModernist xboard" /sd=d:\Winboard\PostModernist

seems to be a contridiction there.
regards
mike

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 15:22**

mike schoonover wrote:wbec engine details page says xboard "no"but gives winboard.ini lines:

WinBoard.ini lines:
"PostModernist xboard" /fd=d:\Winboard\PostModernist
"PostModernist xboard" /sd=d:\Winboard\PostModernist

seems to be a contridiction there.
regards
mike

I think xboard=no means that there is no Linux version. In Windows you have to use the xboard command line argument.

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 16:53**

Well, there is a fair amount of differences between the WinBoard and Arena log, and each of those could potentially cause the problem.

WinBoard sends 'computer' after 'force', in the game where PM gets stuck. It doesn't do it in the game where PM worked, because you apparently played in in human-engine mode there.

WinBoard does send 'time' and 'otim' commands several times in-between the moves it sends to the engine in force mode.

Arena sends the 'black' command before 'go'.

None of this should disturb a compliant engine. It will be a bit tedious to figure out which difference is fatal to PostModernist. The best way to do that would be to start it from the command line with the same command as the GUI uses, and then type the commands that the GUIs send by hand, undoing the differences one by one, to see what works and what doesn't. E.g. when typing the same as Arena sends,

xboard
protover 2
new
random
level 40 3 0
post
hard
easy
force
e2e4
c7c5
g1f3
d7d6
a2a4
black
go

should set it thinking, and when the same leaving out the 'black' would not, we know that this is what causes it, etc.

Posted: **02 Apr 2013, 21:00**

H.G.Muller wrote:Well, there is a fair amount of differences between the WinBoard and Arena log, and each of those could potentially cause the problem.

WinBoard sends 'computer' after 'force', in the game where PM gets stuck. It doesn't do it in the game where PM worked, because you apparently played in in human-engine mode there.

WinBoard does send 'time' and 'otim' commands several times in-between the moves it sends to the engine in force mode.

Arena sends the 'black' command before 'go'.

None of this should disturb a compliant engine. It will be a bit tedious to figure out which difference is fatal to PostModernist. The best way to do that would be to start it from the command line with the same command as the GUI uses, and then type the commands that the GUIs send by hand, undoing the differences one by one, to see what works and what doesn't. E.g. when typing the same as Arena sends,

xboard
protover 2
new
random
level 40 3 0
post
hard
easy
force
e2e4
c7c5
g1f3
d7d6
a2a4
black
go

should set it thinking, and when the same leaving out the 'black' would not, we know that this is what causes it, etc.

You have found it. With 'black' it thinks, without 'black' it does not.

It seems there is no solution as I cannot force WB to send 'black' after each white move.

Posted: **03 Apr 2013, 07:06**

Indeed, WinBoard would never send any 'black' in normal Chess, as it is an officially deprecated command. It goes in fact to great length to avoid sending it. The strange thing here is that there is no reason to end it at all, as the engine should know that after an odd number of moves it is black's turn.

I can also not think of any kludge that would interject a black at this point. WinBoard has options to replace the 'new' and the 'computer' command by user-defined strings on a per-engine basis, but these come before any moves are sent, not after. There is no option for a user-defined 'goString'. Besides, I don't think PM would always need a 'black' command there, as when it happens to get out of book after an even number of moves, white would be on move.

I guess the only solution is to have the author fix it.

Posted: **03 Apr 2013, 12:19**

Please note that this version of PostModernist will not work with big book files which were available with version 1006 or earlier. If you are upgrading from v1006 or earlier, you must download the new big book file.
mike

Posted: **03 Apr 2013, 13:06**

H.G.Muller wrote:Indeed, WinBoard would never send any 'black' in normal Chess, as it is an officially deprecated command. It goes in fact to great length to avoid sending it. The strange thing here is that there is no reason to end it at all, as the engine should know that after an odd number of moves it is black's turn.

I can also not think of any kludge that would interject a black at this point. WinBoard has options to replace the 'new' and the 'computer' command by user-defined strings on a per-engine basis, but these come before any moves are sent, not after. There is no option for a user-defined 'goString'. Besides, I don't think PM would always need a 'black' command there, as when it happens to get out of book after an even number of moves, white would be on move.

I guess the only solution is to have the author fix it.

As you may have guessed, to make white move you have to send 'white'. The funny thing is that you can send 'white' when it is black's turn and PM won't crash, nor will it claim illegal move, it just does not respond and if you now send 'black' it will go back to normal and start to calculate.
So it appears to me that it does keep count of who on move is, however it won't move until it is confirmed.

Contacting the author,... well, development halted 9 years ago. Can it be that at that time WB did send white and black?

Anyway, thank you for your help.

Posted: **03 Apr 2013, 18:35**

Well, that was before I made my re-entry into computer Chess. But I don't think the WB protocol specs have been changed since 2001 before I started to add protocol in 2008, and probably quite some time before. And this deprecation of the 'black' command was already in it at that time.

Btw, it is not that WB would not send 'white'. Unlike 'black', the 'white' command is not deprecated. WinBoard does send 'white' even today. Just not in this situation. These commands were intended for changing the side to move. This was in particular necessary after setting up a position where black is to move. Nowadays most engines understand the 'setboard' command, which sends them a FEN, and the FEN contains the side to move. But before that command existed, the only way to set up a position was through the 'edit' command, and that only set up the board, and could not set the side to move. Then you needed 'black', because after 'new' the engine considers it white's move, and 'edit' would not change that. So in general you can send these commands when it is the other side's turn to move; this is exactly when you need them.

The official meaning of 'white' and 'black', as described in the protocol specs, is to set the mentioned side on move, and set the engine to play the opposite side. In the position where Arena uses it, it would set black to move, (which already was the case, as the last-entered move was a white one) and the engine to play white (which you don't want, so you then have to give a 'go' command to let it play black again). So I have no idea why Arena interjects it.

Winboard Forum

PostModernist problem

PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem

Re: PostModernist problem