Winboard Forum

Does anyone know about some polyglot problem with timing?

When using polyglot+winboard, Alaric always lose in time at certain time controls. When I use the same time control in Arena it doesn't happen.

/Peter

Peter Fendrich wrote:Does anyone know about some polyglot problem with timing?

When using polyglot+winboard, Alaric always lose in time at certain time controls. When I use the same time control in Arena it doesn't happen.

/Peter

Leo said he had similar problems with the new version of Cygwin. He said the problems ended when he started using an older version of it, Marc Moisan is experiencing similar problems with Polygot but with a different engine.

Tony Thomas wrote:

Peter Fendrich wrote:Does anyone know about some polyglot problem with timing?

When using polyglot+winboard, Alaric always lose in time at certain time controls. When I use the same time control in Arena it doesn't happen.

/Peter

Leo said he had similar problems with the new version of Cygwin. He said the problems ended when he started using an older version of it, Marc Moisan is experiencing similar problems with Polygot but with a different engine.

I have had more than 10000 1+1 blitzes played here with various engines without any loss on time.
I use Polyglot 1.4 under winboard with cygwin1.dll v. 1005.17.0.0 (other internal reference : 1.5.17).

Former versions of Polyglot also had problems when run with anything but the very precise version of cygwin it was made for.

Marc

Peter Fendrich wrote:Does anyone know about some polyglot problem with timing?

When using polyglot+winboard, Alaric always lose in time at certain time controls. When I use the same time control in Arena it doesn't happen.

/Peter

Never had problems with ponder off.
Actually I know a bug in Arena which allows _negative_ time
instead of letting a program lose on time.

Guenther

Tony Thomas wrote:

Peter Fendrich wrote:Does anyone know about some polyglot problem with timing?

When using polyglot+winboard, Alaric always lose in time at certain time controls. When I use the same time control in Arena it doesn't happen.

/Peter

Leo said he had similar problems with the new version of Cygwin. He said the problems ended when he started using an older version of it, Marc Moisan is experiencing similar problems with Polygot but with a different engine.

Tony, Peter did not mention any specifications yet,
thus your answer is very missleading, because the problem
Leo experienced was for a special configuration + ponder on.
E.g. It is completely irrelevant which cygwin to use in
_ponder off_ It could well be he stepped into Arenas most
famous bug.

Guenther

What is Arenas most famous bug?
(Actually I had no problem with Arena in this case...)

/Peter

Aha... That is the famous bug you talked about...

Anyway I used ponder on for the opponent but not for Alaric.
The opponent was running directly under winboard. That means that polyglot could not have a clue that ponder was used.
When I turned off ponder it worked. Strange...

Maybe I have to implement wb in Alaric.
I think it is easier to extend from uci to wb. At least in the theory.
But I avoided to implement loads of code this time in order to keep it simple. Alaric is very simple.

/Peter

Thank you guys!

I will try an older cygwin and check if I can continue my test with ponder on for only the opponent engine.

Peter Fendrich wrote:Thank you guys!

I will try an older cygwin and check if I can continue my test with ponder on for only the opponent engine.

Oops Peter, I see you have not implemented the minimal
required ponder UCI option! This can already lead to problems
with CPU usage in ponder off games and with Polyglot too.

Guenther

Of course I have implemented ponder...

What did you see

Peter Fendrich wrote:Of course I have implemented ponder...

What did you see

Code: Select all

uci
id name Alaric 061229
id author Peter Fendrich
option name Hash type spin default 64 min 8 max 1024
option name Nullmove type check default true
option name Style type combo default Goth var Goth var Roman var Coward
option name Selectivity type spin default 2 min 0 max 4
option name Clear Hash type button
uciok

'option name Ponder...' is missing in the UCI options
output of Alaric(at least the version you sent to me)
This can cause(and has caused problems in a very few
UCi programs which also forgot about that option.)
problems when using Polyglot. I don't say it _must_
cause problems, still it is a required UCI option.
What do you see?

Guenther

Guenther Simon wrote:

Peter Fendrich wrote:Of course I have implemented ponder...

What did you see

Code: Select all

uci
id name Alaric 061229
id author Peter Fendrich
option name Hash type spin default 64 min 8 max 1024
option name Nullmove type check default true
option name Style type combo default Goth var Goth var Roman var Coward
option name Selectivity type spin default 2 min 0 max 4
option name Clear Hash type button
uciok

'option name Ponder...' is missing in the UCI options
output of Alaric(at least the version you sent to me)
This can cause(and has caused problems in a very few
UCi programs which also forgot about that option.)
problems when using Polyglot. I don't say it _must_
cause problems, still it is a required UCI option.
What do you see?

Guenther

I get:

Code: Select all

AlaricExp by Peter Fendrich

uci
id name Alaric 061011
id author Peter Fendrich
option name Ponder type check default true
option name Hash type spin default 64 min 8 max 1024
option name Nullmove type check default true
option name Style type combo default Goth var Goth var Roman var Coward
option name Selectivity type spin default 2 min 0 max 4
option name Clear Hash type button
uciok

with the older version, is the "option name Ponder type check default true" removed?

Best wishes and Happy New Year to all!

Leo

The ponder option is not necessary to add due to the UCI protocol description:

Note that not every option needs to appear in this dialog as some options like "Ponder", "UCI_AnalyseMode", etc. are better handled elsewhere or are set automatically. If the user wants to change some settings, the GUI will send a "setoption" command to the engine.

I will put it back if polyglot gets in a better mood

Hello all. Good to be at the Winboard Forum.

I had the same time problem with most engines at FICS while using Polyglot with Winboard, namely the complete disinterest in time management with ponder on. I used the solution supplied here regarding the correct cygwin1.dll version. Thanks!

I found total resolution after replacing the latest version with the original versions for both Winboard and Polyglot. The problem reoccured howerever, but only once out of close to 200 consecutive games of lightning at 1 0, ...that doesnt say it didnt lose on time occasionaly but that it didnt show a total abscense of time management. I would say its fixed.

Cygwin1.dll versions I am using:
Winboard:1005.5.0.0
Polyglot : 1005.17.0.0

Good Chess.
Dave

Well it WAS fixed...
The continual flagging on time has returned with Ponder on at FICS, even with the original cygwin1.dlls used for Winboard and Polyglot. I am cluless now. Some minor cosmetic changes to my WinXPP config and some registry cleaning set it off again.

Reinstalling WB didnt help.

Now heres is a clue: Spike or Shredder as UCI with polyglot and ponder on didnt do it, switching to Peach (fruit) or Toga, or Ruffian, these displayed the time problem. The problem never presented to any of the engines with ponder off.

This would describe a problem with engine communication not polyglot or Winboard.

Some single condition is not being met. I would think this would be easy to discover or repair, because the only difference between flagging out and not flagging out is whether ponder is on or off for the engines that have the problem.
Anyway, its over my head now. I will send the debugs for these games to Fabien.


Good (C)hess
Dave Acevedo

Dave Acevedo wrote:Well it WAS fixed...
The continual flagging on time has returned with Ponder on at FICS, even with the original cygwin1.dlls used for Winboard and Polyglot. I am cluless now. Some minor cosmetic changes to my WinXPP config and some registry cleaning set it off again.

Reinstalling WB didnt help.

Now heres is a clue: Spike or Shredder as UCI with polyglot and ponder on didnt do it, switching to Peach (fruit) or Toga, or Ruffian, these displayed the time problem. The problem never presented to any of the engines with ponder off.

This would describe a problem with engine communication not polyglot or Winboard.

Some single condition is not being met. I would think this would be easy to discover or repair, because the only difference between flagging out and not flagging out is whether ponder is on or off for the engines that have the problem.
Anyway, its over my head now. I will send the debugs for these games to Fabien.


Good (C)hess
Dave Acevedo

I believe it's a problem with FICS respectively the timeseal
used. AFAIK there is no problem with ponder on in non
server games with your mentioned configuration.

Regards,
Guenther

No luck getting Polyglot\Winboard to not lose on time with Ponder on. I well know many have no problems so I must conclude it is a Windows issue as even I had it working for a little while.

However the UCI2WB adapter still works with Toga and WinXPP and manages time perfectly with ponder on at FICS, although it returned "illegal move" on one occasion and stopped playing (similar to Arena with FRC) and there is no means I can see to assign individual UCI options. Perhaps Roland Pfister will develope this utility further . It is my claim Winboard functions much better producing more wins than the other GUIs.

Good Chess

Dave