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Hello,

I know that this topic has already been discussed, but there seems to be no ready-to-use solution. Also possibly things recently got worse.

Not surprisingly, I want to integrate tablebases into my engine. So I tried to write to Eugene and Andrew for permission. I know that they tend to ignore mails, but what else should I do then trying?

I think Andrew now works for Google rather then Microsoft. In spite of google search I could not find a new email address. My first mail to [Mircosoft] was ignored. My second mail to [Microsoft] (today) bounced. Guessed new address [at Google] also bounces.

Eugene also ignored my first mail. I sent a second one today. This time I used a return receipt and I immediately (within 6s, so apparently automatically) got the one below. Have you an idea what else to do?

I do have a permission to use Scorpio bitbases (thank you, Daniel), but they should be only an enhancement or workaround, not a replacement because they don't tell what move to play.

Regards,
Onno

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Not read: Again: Permission to use Tablebases?
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:21:26 -0700
From: Eugene Nalimov <xxx>
To: Onno Garms <xxx>

Your message was deleted without being read on Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:21:26 AM UTC.


Final-recipient: RFC822; xxx
Disposition: automatic-action/MDN-sent-automatically; deleted
X-MSExch-Correlation-Key: rTWvXjjZXEuKD4DGrmUImQ==
Original-Message-ID: <4A3CC62E.5080604@onnochess.com>
X-Display-Name: Eugene Nalimov

EDITED : email addresses removed - Olivier

Got the permission from Eugene (plus new email of Andrew)! It seems that Eugene found my mail in his spam filter.

Hi Onno,
maybe you should remove the email adresses in your posts to prevent Eugene and yourself from getting flooded by spam.

best regards
Roman

Roman Hartmann wrote:Hi Onno,
maybe you should remove the email adresses in your posts to prevent Eugene and yourself from getting flooded by spam.

best regards
Roman

Good point Roman, I have just removed the email addresses.

Olivier

Olivier Deville wrote:

Roman Hartmann wrote:Hi Onno,
maybe you should remove the email adresses in your posts to prevent Eugene and yourself from getting flooded by spam.

best regards
Roman

Good point Roman, I have just removed the email addresses.

Olivier

I'm spreading my email address for years and my spam is still under control. When you enter Nalimov his email address in Google you get tons of hits. But if you want the addresses removed, I don't mind. I also removed the - invalid - addresses of Andrew.

Hi,

I have written a thesis which needs an output of Crafty and i got it. And that Crafty uses Nalimov tablebases. I mean I'm not using tablebase for my chess engine (i also don't have any chess engine). The question is should i get permission about tablebase? If yes how can i find contact info Eugene and Andrew??

thanks..

Gokce wrote:Hi,

I have written a thesis which needs an output of Crafty and i got it. And that Crafty uses Nalimov tablebases. I mean I'm not using tablebase for my chess engine (i also don't have any chess engine). The question is should i get permission about tablebase? If yes how can i find contact info Eugene and Andrew??

thanks..

You do not need permission. Dr. Hyatt already got permission to use the tablebase files from Eugene and Andrew.

Thank you Dann. I wrote the previous message late time in the night. So there is some missing part. I have no chess engine. but i got a little code. and that code for my thesis take the output of crafty (which use Nalimov tablebase) and use this output in my code. Now i will ask the same question: should i get permission about tablebase?

thanks..

Gokce wrote:Thank you Dann. I wrote the previous message late time in the night. So there is some missing part. I have no chess engine. but i got a little code. and that code for my thesis take the output of crafty (which use Nalimov tablebase) and use this output in my code. Now i will ask the same question: should i get permission about tablebase?

thanks..

I am not sure that I understand.

If you only want to pipe the output of crafty through some filter you have designed then you do not need any permission.

If you want to take Eugene and Andrew's EGTB template code and compile it into your program, then you will need permission for that.

The first one you've said is the question and the answer that i try to ask and get an answer

I give an endgame position as input to Crafty. And Crafty gives me the best possible move reading Nalimov tablebase that i need for my code. I mean I pipe the output of Crafty through some filter I have designed, like you said.

Extended explanation: I added a few lines into Crafty code to get the move as written to a file that i need for my code. With these lines Crafty writes the best move to a file and my code reads this file. I hope I could tell clearly.

thanks..

Gokce wrote:The first one you've said is the question and the answer that i try to ask and get an answer

I give an endgame position as input to Crafty. And Crafty gives me the best possible move reading Nalimov tablebase that i need for my code. I mean I pipe the output of Crafty through some filter I have designed, like you said.

Extended explanation: I added a few lines into Crafty code to get the move as written to a file that i need for my code. With these lines Crafty writes the best move to a file and my code reads this file. I hope I could tell clearly.

thanks..

No, you don't need permission for that, at all.

I would even argue that you may not need permission to use the probing code if the reason is to test in an academic environment. They published an academic paper with Heinz (you WILL NEED to cite this), which means that they have the ethical obligation to allow peers to test their product. In fact, most academic journals enforce that in writing. You can't publish something and later say "I do not want anybody to check what we did is real". In other words, testing under an academic environment may be a good example of "fair use".

Anyway, you can always use EGTBs with a license that allow you to do this without doubts or concerns (i.e. MIT license).
http://sites.google.com/site/gaviotache ... blebases-1

Particularly if you want to use the probing code:
http://github.com/michiguel/Gaviota-Tablebases

However, if it goes into a thesis, Nalimov's should be better because the procedure is published and you can cite them.

Good luck with your project!
Miguel