Chezzz and EGTB's

[Gábor Szõts]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Gábor Szõts at 12 February 2003 09:20:32:

Hi all,
I can't get EGTB's work with Chezzz. In the config file I have a line 'egtb path D:\Sakk\TB', this is a directory where the complete 4-man EGTB's reside.
Still, Chezzz seems to be calculating its move instead of taking it from the EGTB's.
What do I do wrong?
Gábor

[David Rasmussen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 10:25:46:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Gábor Szõts at 12 February 2003 09:20:32:

Hi all,
I can't get EGTB's work with Chezzz. In the config file I have a line 'egtb path D:\Sakk\TB', this is a directory where the complete 4-man EGTB's reside.
Still, Chezzz seems to be calculating its move instead of taking it from the EGTB's.
What do I do wrong?

Have you written a bug report?
What happens if you start up Chezzz yourself, that is, not from within a GUI? Alternatively you could look in the log file of your GUI.
During initialization you'll see something like this (from my output):
Reading configuration file...
Tablebase path: c:\tb
One common reason is that the chezzz.cfg file misses a newline (enter) at the end. Chezzz uses chezzz.cfg in this manner: It just executes whatever is in there. Every command should end in a newline, just as on the prompt. If the last command is
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [no enter here, just end of file]
then the command won't get executed. Instead it should be
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [newline]
/David

[Gábor Szõts]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Gábor Szõts at 12 February 2003 10:48:41:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 10:25:46:

Hi all,
I can't get EGTB's work with Chezzz. In the config file I have a line 'egtb path D:\Sakk\TB', this is a directory where the complete 4-man EGTB's reside.
Still, Chezzz seems to be calculating its move instead of taking it from the EGTB's.
What do I do wrong?

Have you written a bug report?
What happens if you start up Chezzz yourself, that is, not from within a GUI? Alternatively you could look in the log file of your GUI.
During initialization you'll see something like this (from my output):
Reading configuration file...
Tablebase path: c:\tb
One common reason is that the chezzz.cfg file misses a newline (enter) at the end. Chezzz uses chezzz.cfg in this manner: It just executes whatever is in there. Every command should end in a newline, just as on the prompt. If the last command is
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [no enter here, just end of file]
then the command won't get executed. Instead it should be
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [newline]
/David

Thank you very much, David. It was the missing newline. Now it is working all right.
Gábor

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Roger Brown at 12 February 2003 12:09:23:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 10:25:46:

One common reason is that the chezzz.cfg file misses a newline (enter) at the end. Chezzz uses chezzz.cfg in this manner: It just executes whatever is in there. Every command should end in a newline, just as on the prompt. If the last command is
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [no enter here, just end of file]
then the command won't get executed. Instead it should be
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [newline]
/David

Hello David,

Thanks for that tip! Now when I start up Chezzz it indicates that it has found the egtb's and the type.

This is why I just love "verbose" programs that tell me that they are happy and well adjusted on startup in console mode.

Ah, I am not a lonely, cooped up person either!

Later.

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 12:12:31:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 10:25:46:

If I may make a suggestion.
You could make it so, that a default cfg file is printed when no file is found.
-S.

[mike schoonover]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: mike schoonover at 12 February 2003 12:26:11:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Gábor Szõts at 12 February 2003 10:48:41:

i noticed the same thing,and newline worked here too.
thx dave
mike

[David Rasmussen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 12:27:20:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Roger Brown at 12 February 2003 12:09:23:

One common reason is that the chezzz.cfg file misses a newline (enter) at the end. Chezzz uses chezzz.cfg in this manner: It just executes whatever is in there. Every command should end in a newline, just as on the prompt. If the last command is
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [no enter here, just end of file]
then the command won't get executed. Instead it should be
egtb path d:\sakk\tb [newline]
/David

Hello David,

Thanks for that tip! Now when I start up Chezzz it indicates that it has found the egtb's and the type.

This is why I just love "verbose" programs that tell me that they are happy and well adjusted on startup in console mode.

Good
Chezzz doesn't consider it an error that there is no newline on the last line. And it can run without TB's, so it's quite well adjusted, even if one should make this mistake. I've added this info to the readme.txt, but will probably just change things so lines without newlines work anyway.
I am still finding out about these "unimportant" user-problems, (that is, problems that are not directly related to the quality of play) and correcting them as I go along. Until recently, I was the only user of Chezzz 1.x.
The best thing to do when encountering a problem is to send me some feedback.
/David

[David Rasmussen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 12:28:35:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 12:12:31:

If I may make a suggestion.
You could make it so, that a default cfg file is printed when no file is found.
-S.

What should be in this default chezzz.cfg, do you think?
/David

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 12:41:35:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 12:28:35:

If I may make a suggestion.
You could make it so, that a default cfg file is printed when no file is found.
-S.

What should be in this default chezzz.cfg, do you think?
/David

I put all the user adjustable settings, set to the default values.
I think perhaps it is expecting too much of the user to be able to write a configuration file. Of course one could also just package one with the engine, or make a command to print such a file.
Either way it's nice with there is config file to edit, take me for instance I have yet to figure out how to increase the hashtables in Crafty. And no, I'm not going to bother to read 10 pages of help files to figure it out, so that means Crafty won't get a spot on my testbench!
-S.

[Odd Gunnar Malin]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Odd Gunnar Malin at 12 February 2003 12:41:37:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 12:28:35:

If I may make a suggestion.
You could make it so, that a default cfg file is printed when no file is found.
-S.

What should be in this default chezzz.cfg, do you think?
/David

A comment about the need for a newline character at the end of the file
Odd Gunnar

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Roger Brown at 12 February 2003 12:44:39:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 12:27:20:

Chezzz doesn't consider it an error that there is no newline on the last line. And it can run without TB's, so it's quite well adjusted, even if one should make this mistake. I've added this info to the readme.txt, but will probably just change things so lines without newlines work anyway.
I am still finding out about these "unimportant" user-problems, (that is, problems that are not directly related to the quality of play) and correcting them as I go along. Until recently, I was the only user of Chezzz 1.x.
The best thing to do when encountering a problem is to send me some feedback.
/David

Hello David,

Trust me on this one, the "well adjusted" comment really was my usually
feeble attempt at humour. I start off from the position that I really am
grateful for any free stuff that plays chess.

Your engine plays better than most I suspect - that comment from very limited
tests I have conducted on my box.

The lack of egtb access would have been in no way a serious issue - several
WB engines do not as yet access them - but it is even better that Chezzz will
play perfectly in the endgame phase.

So I would never have sent you feedback because, to me, it was not a problem.

Thanks much for your willingness to please the demanding fans with updated
versions of Chezzz as well as with these explanations.

I always appreciate that sort of "customer driven focus".

Particularly when the stuff is free....

Later.

[David Rasmussen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 14:06:50:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Roger Brown at 12 February 2003 12:44:39:

Thanks much for your willingness to please the demanding fans with updated
versions of Chezzz as well as with these explanations.

I always appreciate that sort of "customer driven focus".

Particularly when the stuff is free....

:)
It's mutual: My reasons for releasing stuff for free is to get as many people to test and comment on it as possible, so I can fix bugs and problems. Free beta-testers if you like
Feedback is extremely precious to me. When/if someone actually manages to find a simple reproducible test case for a serious bug, that is like getting a christmas present. In this case I was aware of the "problem" so the "bug" was that it was not described in the documentation or that I hadn't "fixed" that oddity. Not a serious "bug", but keep diggin'!
/David

[David Rasmussen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 14:19:35:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 12:41:35:

If I may make a suggestion.
You could make it so, that a default cfg file is printed when no file is found.
-S.

What should be in this default chezzz.cfg, do you think?
/David

I put all the user adjustable settings, set to the default values.
I think perhaps it is expecting too much of the user to be able to write a configuration file. Of course one could also just package one with the engine, or make a command to print such a file.
Either way it's nice with there is config file to edit, take me for instance I have yet to figure out how to increase the hashtables in Crafty. And no, I'm not going to bother to read 10 pages of help files to figure it out, so that means Crafty won't get a spot on my testbench!
-S.

Understandable
I will consider doing that. It would be a nice way of doing things. The only case I can't see how to handle nicely, is when the file exists, but some _essential_ things are missing from it. If the only line in the cfg file is:
egtb path c:\tb
then at least hash table sizes are missing.
One way to deal with it would be to exit with an error message. Another would be to create tables of standard sizes, which I am doing now. One could take this scheme to the extreme and demand a fen for what position to start the program with:
setboard rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
hash 256M
phash 32M
egtb path c:\tb
the first three lines are a required minimum then.
Of course there are many different and good ways to do this. I just like finding the simplest solution and the nicest design. It would be nice one and only one cfg file existed, and you could still use it as a "script" as in current Chezzz. The script idea isn't fully functional yet. Ideally you should be able to do this:
easy
st 10
setboard something
go
hash save hashimage.bin
setboard whatever
go
test wac.epd
quit
or whatever...
You can't now. Specifically, "go" doesn't make sense in the cfg file (yet).
/David

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 14:45:56:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: David Rasmussen at 12 February 2003 14:19:35:

I will consider doing that. It would be a nice way of doing things. The only case I can't see how to handle nicely, is when the file exists, but some _essential_ things are missing from it. If the only line in the cfg file is:
egtb path c:\tb
then at least hash table sizes are missing.
One way to deal with it would be to exit with an error message. Another would be to create tables of standard sizes, which I am doing now. One could take this scheme to the extreme and demand a fen for what position to start the program with:
setboard rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
hash 256M
phash 32M
egtb path c:\tb
the first three lines are a required minimum then.
Of course there are many different and good ways to do this. I just like finding the simplest solution and the nicest design. It would be nice one and only one cfg file existed, and you could still use it as a "script" as in current Chezzz. The script idea isn't fully functional yet. Ideally you should be able to do this:
easy
st 10
setboard something
go
hash save hashimage.bin
setboard whatever
go
test wac.epd
quit
or whatever...
You can't now. Specifically, "go" doesn't make sense in the cfg file (yet).
/David

Yes, however this would mean that the user has deleted some lines, I don't think most user would do that but you have to expect the unexpected of course.
hehe, I'm doing it the same way with the script thing.
Somewhere down the line it should be possible to do a script like:
set values to ...
run testset A
save results to file_1
set values to ...
run testset A
save values to file_2
dataanalysis file_1 file_2 data_output
try new optimal values from data_output
...


About the ini file; I initialize to default values before reading the file, so if the file is empty or if there is no hash setting or the line is unreadable to the program or whatever, then I just use the default values ie. I do nothing since it's already at default.
-S.

[Stefan Helders]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Stefan Helders at 12 February 2003 17:12:32:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 14:45:56:

I will consider doing that. It would be a nice way of doing things. The only case I can't see how to handle nicely, is when the file exists, but some _essential_ things are missing from it. If the only line in the cfg file is:
egtb path c:\tb
then at least hash table sizes are missing.

Yes, however this would mean that the user has deleted some lines, I don't think most user would do that but you have to expect the unexpected of course.

In case some lines of the ini file were deleted you can just assume a default value for missing variables. If a user wants to restore all default values, he should just rename or delete the changed ini file and the engine would create a new one with default values.
Stefan

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 12 February 2003 18:25:24:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Chezzz and EGTB's geschrieben von: / posted by: Stefan Helders at 12 February 2003 17:12:32:

I will consider doing that. It would be a nice way of doing things. The only case I can't see how to handle nicely, is when the file exists, but some _essential_ things are missing from it. If the only line in the cfg file is:
egtb path c:\tb
then at least hash table sizes are missing.

Yes, however this would mean that the user has deleted some lines, I don't think most user would do that but you have to expect the unexpected of course.

In case some lines of the ini file were deleted you can just assume a default value for missing variables.
If a user wants to restore all default values, he should just rename or delete the changed ini file and the engine would create a new one with default values.
Stefan

Sure (I wrote that at the bottom:).
Yes that is one of three good ways to do it.
You could also ship it within the engine package, in the worst case senario the user has to go and download it again. This might be better if you don't want to bloat the exe with ini-files.
Personally I prefer if the engine will just generate a new file, but I don't know what the most natural reaction here would be. I guess the user might panic and just download it again, not knowing the engine is capable of generating one.
I guess what it comes down to is what the auther himself prefers.
-S.