51-move rule and detect mates

[Gábor Szots]

Please someone explain me what these things mean in WB.

[Guenther Simon]

Please someone explain me what these things mean in WB.

This is very easy. There are still a lot of programs which neither detect
50-moves draws nor repetitions. For those you can insert values, when you
want games being adjourned as a draw, between such engines.
(Note that 50-moves draws and repetition draws are _no must_ but
_can_ claims by rule.)
Moreover there are also programs which even don't claim mates themselves,
which would mean WB would just flag the mated one after its time exceeded.
With WB claiming mates by itself you can save a lot of time in games with
such programs.

Guenther

[Gábor Szots]

This is very easy. There are still a lot of programs which neither detect
50-moves draws nor repetitions. For those you can insert values, when you
want games being adjourned as a draw, between such engines.
(Note that 50-moves draws and repetition draws are _no must_ but
_can_ claims by rule.)
Guenther

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

[Matthias Gemuh]

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

It appears GUI must wait till 51 to know that engine is unable to claim at 50.

Matthias.

[Gábor Szots]

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

It appears GUI must wait till 51 to know that engine is unable to claim at 50.

Matthias.

Yes, that is s ensible, thanks.

BTW, why do we want the GUI claim 50-move draw when it is not obligatory?

[Guenther Simon]

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

It appears GUI must wait till 51 to know that engine is unable to claim at 50.

Matthias.

Yes, that is s ensible, thanks.

BTW, why do we want the GUI claim 50-move draw when it is not obligatory?

Because you'll get games with > 500 moves easily, if both don't know
repetition and 50-moves rule. (If the move stack limit for one engine
is reached, probably at move 511/512 or 1023/1024 it will crash
before the game has ended)

Guenther

[xinix]

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

It appears GUI must wait till 51 to know that engine is unable to claim at 50.

Matthias.

Yes, that is s ensible, thanks.

BTW, why do we want the GUI claim 50-move draw when it is not obligatory?

An engine trying to win KRKB can take a very long time. It's mostly for the testers.

Cheers,

Tony

[Gábor Szots]

Thanks Günther. That was indeed easy but that was not what I was looking for. I know the 50-move rule but why would I choose 51 as the draw number?

It appears GUI must wait till 51 to know that engine is unable to claim at 50.

Matthias.

Yes, that is s ensible, thanks.

BTW, why do we want the GUI claim 50-move draw when it is not obligatory?

Because you'll get games with > 500 moves easily, if both don't know
repetition and 50-moves rule. (If the move stack limit for one engine
is reached, probably at move 511/512 or 1023/1024 it will crash
before the game has ended)

Guenther

If the GUI permits I set a limit for the length of the game. Currently I use 240. And WB permits that.

[H.G.Muller]

Some tournaments (such as WBEC) adjudicate a draw after 50 moves, and put the burdon on th engines to do the adjudication If they don't, they are not allowed to participate. The N-move feature was added to WinBoard to allow the use of engines under such rules that do not claim the draw, by having the GUI do it. By setting the adjudication point to 51 moves, it is at the same time possibl to test if engines do satisfy the draw-claiming requirement that other tournaments might impose. Same for repeats, which by default are set to >3, so you can see if an engine claims, but do not lose to much time if the don't and continue to repeat. 240 moves can be a long time in a 40/40 game, if the engines get stuck in a loop at move 25... The impatient can also use, say, a 30-move rule.

When I self-play micro-Max, I cal a draw on the first repeat, as I know it plays deterministic anyway.