new/updated engines

[nepossiver]

and has somewhat functional(!) client-server code.

What this means? Is it a trojan horse of some kind?

[Zach Wegner]

Window 1:

Code: Select all

C:\Users\dev3\Downloads>Dolphin.exe
uci
id name Dolphin Z9
id author Anthony Matthews
option name Hash type spin default 1 min 1 max 2048
option name UCI_SetPositionValue type string
option name UCI_Chess960 type check default false
option name NalimovPath type string default <empty>
option name NalimovCache type spin default 1 min 1 max 32
option name ReactionOnShowEval type combo default None var None
option name TBDistance type spin default 8 min 1 max 99
option name TwoKnightsMalus type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name PairOfBishops type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name PawnValue type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name KnightValue type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name BishopValue type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name RookValue type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name QueenValue type spin default 100 min 25 max 400
option name Dummy type spin default 100 min 1 max 999
option name TimeUsage type spin default 100 min 50 max 400
option name PreserveHash type check default true
option name WriteLog type check default false
option name CPUs type spin default 1 min 1 max 16
option name ClearHash type button
uciok
No opening book found...
Looking for tablebases in <empty>
server_createremoteclient 127.0.0.1 12345
Winsock gestartet!
Socket erstellt!
Verbunden mit 127.0.0.1...
go infinite
info depth 5 seldepth 7 time 92 nodes 2144 nps 23304 pv a2a3 e7e6 b1c3 b8c6 g1f3
 score cp -14 hashfull 0 tbhits 0
info depth 5 seldepth 7 time 95 nodes 4754 nps 49520 pv b2b3 b8c6 c1b2 score cp
-2 hashfull 0 tbhits 0
info depth 5 seldepth 9 time 98 nodes 6398 nps 64626 pv d2d3 b8c6 b1c3 score cp
23 hashfull 0 tbhits 0
info depth 5 seldepth 11 time 101 nodes 7844 nps 76901 pv d2d3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 b1
d2 score cp 38 hashfull 0 tbhits 0
info depth 5 seldepth 11 time 105 nodes 9214 nps 87752 pv d2d3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 b1
d2 score cp 38 hashfull 0 tbhits 0
info depth 6 seldepth 11 time 115 nodes 17335 nps 149439 pv d2d3 d7d6 score cp 1
3 hashfull 1 tbhits 0
info  depth 6 seldepth 13 score cp 13 upperbound pv d2d3 d7d6!
info depth 6 seldepth 13 time 128 nodes 26831 nps 209617 pv d2d3 e7e6 g1f3 b8c6
score cp 10 hashfull 2 tbhits 0
info depth 6 seldepth 13 time 129 nodes 27875 nps 214423 pv e2e3 g8f6 b1c3 d7d6
g1f3 b8d7 score cp 17 hashfull 2 tbhits 0
info depth 6 seldepth 13 time 131 nodes 27891 nps 211295 pv e2e3 g8f6 b1c3 d7d6
g1f3 b8d7 score cp 17 hashfull 2 tbhits 0
info depth 7 seldepth 13 time 158 nodes 50262 nps 316113 pv e2e3 e7e5 b1c3 d7d5
d2d4 e5d4 e3d4 score cp 21 hashfull 4 tbhits 0
info depth 7 seldepth 14 time 180 nodes 71032 nps 392442 pv b1c3 b8c6 e2e3 d7d6
g1f3 g8f6 f1c4 score cp 26 hashfull 6 tbhits 0
info depth 7 seldepth 14 time 184 nodes 73567 nps 399820 pv b1c3 b8c6 e2e3 d7d6
g1f3 g8f6 f1c4 score cp 26 hashfull 6 tbhits 0
info depth 8 seldepth 19 time 257 nodes 142255 nps 551376 pv b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6
 e2e3 d7d6 score cp 16 hashfull 11 tbhits 0
info depth 8 seldepth 19 time 350 nodes 221710 nps 631652 pv b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6
 e2e3 d7d6 score cp 16 hashfull 16 tbhits 0
info depth 9 seldepth 20 time 465 nodes 398476 nps 855099 pv b1c3 d7d5 g1f3 d5d4
 c3b5 b8c6 d2d3 e7e5 c1g5 score cp 16 hashfull 28 tbhits 0
info depth 9 seldepth 20 time 506 nodes 443822 nps 877118 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6
 score cp 26 hashfull 32 tbhits 0
info depth 9 seldepth 22 time 632 nodes 648911 nps 1025136 pv e2e4 b8c6 b1c3 e7e
5 score cp 33 hashfull 47 tbhits 0
info depth 9 seldepth 22 time 634 nodes 716992 nps 1129121 pv e2e4 b8c6 b1c3 e7e
5 score cp 33 hashfull 47 tbhits 0
info depth 10 seldepth 29 time 1016 nodes 1381339 nps 1358248 pv e2e4 d7d5 e4d5
g8f6 f1b5 c8d7 b5c4 b7b5 c4b3 d7g4 f2f3 score cp 24 hashfull 89 tbhits 0
info depth 10 seldepth 29 time 1155 nodes 1654935 nps 1431604 pv e2e4 d7d5 e4d5
g8f6 f1b5 c8d7 b5c4 b7b5 c4b3 d7g4 f2f3 score cp 24 hashfull 102 tbhits 0
info depth 11 seldepth 29 time 1672 nodes 2661897 nps 1591092 pv e2e4 e7e5 b1c3
g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 f8c5 d4c6 d7c6 score cp 27 hashfull 139 tbhits 0
info depth 11 seldepth 29 time 1814 nodes 2936269 nps 1617779 pv e2e4 e7e5 b1c3
g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 f8c5 d4c6 d7c6 score cp 27 hashfull 152 tbhits 0
info depth 12 seldepth 29 time 3102 nodes 5350249 nps 1724218 pv e2e4 e7e5 b1c3
b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 f8b4 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e8d8 f1d3 c8e6 score cp 28 has
hfull 258 tbhits 0
info depth 12 seldepth 29 time 3279 nodes 5712551 nps 1742162 pv e2e4 e7e5 b1c3
b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 f8b4 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e8d8 f1d3 c8e6 score cp 28 has
hfull 271 tbhits 0
info depth 13 seldepth 29 time 5394 nodes 9603528 nps 1780409 pv e2e4 b8c6 d2d4
d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 e8c8 b1c3 d5f5 e1g1 g4f3 e2f3 d8d4 b2c3 score cp 2
7 hashfull 417 tbhits 0
info depth 13 seldepth 29 time 6171 nodes 11098127 nps 1798141 pv e2e4 b8c6 d2d4
 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 e8c8 b1c3 d5f5 e1g1 g4f3 e2f3 d8d4 b2c3 score cp
27 hashfull 478 tbhits 0
info depth 14 seldepth 30 time 10948 nodes 19826542 nps 1810808 pv e2e4 b8c6 d2d
4 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 g8f6 e1g1 e8c8 b1c3 d5d6 c3b5 d6d7 b2c3 score cp
 26 hashfull 739 tbhits 0
info depth 14 seldepth 30 time 11961 nodes 21937058 nps 1833895 pv e2e4 b8c6 d2d
4 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 g8f6 e1g1 e8c8 b1c3 d5d6 c3b5 d6d7 b2c3 score cp
 26 hashfull 777 tbhits 0
info depth 15 seldepth 34 time 38771 nodes 70604457 nps 1821016 pv e2e4 e7e5 b1c
3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 f1c4 f8c5 d2d3 e8g8 c1g5 h7h6 g5e3 c5e3 f2e3 score cp 15 hashfu
ll 997 tbhits 0
info depth 15 seldepth 34 time 51095 nodes 87569471 nps 1713855 pv d2d4 d7d5 c1f
4 c8f5 e2e3 e7e6 f1d3 f5d3 d1d3 b8c6 g1f3 f8b4 c2c3 b4d6 e1g1 g8f6 f4d6 d8d6 sco
re cp 28 hashfull 999 tbhits 0
info depth 15 seldepth 34 time 52215 nodes 92977521 nps 1780666 pv d2d4 d7d5 c1f
4 c8f5 e2e3 e7e6 f1d3 f5d3 d1d3 b8c6 g1f3 f8b4 c2c3 b4d6 e1g1 g8f6 f4d6 d8d6 sco
re cp 28 hashfull 999 tbhits 0


Window 2:

Code: Select all

C:\Users\dev3\Downloads>Dolphin.exe remotecaller 12345
No opening book found...
Looking for tablebases in <empty>
Winsock gestartet!
Socket erstellt!
Socket an port 12345 gebunden
this->acceptSocket ist im listen Modus....
Neue Verbindung wurde akzeptiert!
Socket created on port 12345!
cps_done
cabresult -16 1683 11 0 0 g8f6 g1f3 e7e6
cabresult -22 2018 11 0 0 g8f6 d2d4 e7e5 g1f3 e5d4 f3d4 c6d4 d1d4
cabresult 28 6902 13 0 0 e2e4
cabresult 16 9840 16 0 0 g1f3 b8c6 e2e3 d7d6
cabresult 18 40 6 0 0
cabresult 23 48 6 0 0
cabresult 24 30 4 0 0
cabresult 25 36 4 0 0
cabresult 28 42 4 0 0
cabresult 18 35 4 0 0
cabresult 33 33 4 0 0
cabresult 18 35 4 0 0
cabresult 33 37 4 0 0
cabresult 32 28 4 0 0
cabresult 37 33 4 0 0
cabresult 16 26 4 0 0
cabresult 39 36 4 0 0
cabresult 16 58 5 0 0
cabresult 16 1685 15 0 0 g1f3
cabresult -16 5739 11 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -14 2106 9 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -17 9278 15 0 0 b8c6 d2d4
cabresult -16 7396 16 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -16 1392 10 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -15 77 6 0 0
cabresult -15 1442 9 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -15 1625 9 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -16 1273 13 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -17 11506 15 0 0 e7e6 c1f4 g7g5 f4g3 g8f6 g1f3
cabresult 16 36161 17 0 0 g1f3 d5d4 c3b5 b8c6 d2d3 e7e5 c1g5
cabresult -16 5757 12 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -17 43619 19 0 0 d7d5 e4d5
cabresult 1 68081 19 0 0 d7d5
cabresult -22 48860 22 0 0 g8f6 b1c3 e7e5 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 c6d4 d1d4
cabresult -36 3608 12 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -33 3209 12 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -36 109 6 0 0
cabresult -36 117 6 0 0
cabresult -38 108 6 0 0
cabresult -34 117 6 0 0
cabresult -38 177 8 0 0
cabresult 30000 1 0 0 0
cabresult 22 143885 29 0 0 b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4
cabresult -24 26388 20 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -24 11449 16 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -24 69512 19 0 0 d7d5
cabresult -24 4101 14 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -24 6773 14 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -24 7397 14 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -34 232774 23 0 0 e7e6 b1c3 f8b4 g1f3 g8f6 c1g5
cabresult 27 154345 22 0 0 b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 e5d4 f3d4 f8c5 d4c6 d7c6
cabresult 27 25251 20 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 14162 16 0 0 e4e5
cabresult 27 42595 24 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 12361 18 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 13022 18 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 7711 14 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 2381 13 0 0
cabresult 27 15468 17 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 11000 17 0 0 b1c3
cabresult -27 39588 17 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -27 23377 20 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -27 4676 14 0 0
cabresult -27 7210 14 0 0
cabresult -27 4192 14 0 0
cabresult -27 4623 14 0 0
cabresult -27 2979 12 0 0
cabresult -29999 7347 18 0 0
cabresult -32 479538 26 0 0 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 c1e3 e7e5 b1c3 f8b4 d4e5 d5e5 f1c4 e5
e4 c4d5 b4c3 b2c3
cabresult -32 32547 27 0 0 e7e6
cabresult -32 16948 18 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -32 22814 19 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -32 2351 15 0 0
cabresult 32 272711 23 0 0 e4d5
cabresult 28 37426 16 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 33292 22 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 24991 18 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 37759 25 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 28280 17 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 22176 15 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 28 35794 20 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 16 49130 20 0 0 b1c3 f5e4 c3e4 g8f6 d1f3 f6e4 f3e4 d7d5 e4f4 b8c6 f1b5
 c8d7
cabresult -28 52544 20 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -28 98512 22 0 0 d7d5
cabresult -28 2478 12 0 0
cabresult -28 3567 12 0 0
cabresult -27 476565 29 0 0 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 e8c8 b1c3 d5f5 e1g1 g4
f3 e2f3 d8d4
cabresult -27 144929 26 0 0 e7e6
cabresult -27 59136 24 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -27 16087 17 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -27 71512 18 0 0 a7a6
cabresult -27 20983 19 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -27 10240 14 0 0
cabresult -27 6604 13 0 0
cabresult -27 8074 17 0 0
cabresult -27 6685 13 0 0
cabresult -27 5296 13 0 0
cabresult -27 8174 23 0 0
cabresult -27 40005 20 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -27 467 5 0 0
cabresult 27 251109 24 0 0 e4d5
cabresult 27 98431 23 0 0 e4e5
cabresult 27 67462 21 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 136367 21 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 14230 19 0 0
cabresult 27 105143 24 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 157153 22 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 27 17266 20 0 0
cabresult 27 96277 24 0 0 b1c3
cabresult -27 179479 24 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -27 74633 18 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -27 317718 24 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -26 936908 30 0 0 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 g1f3 c8g4 f1e2 g8f6 e1g1 e8c8 b1c3 d5
d6 c3b5 d6d7
cabresult -26 959941 29 0 0 e7e5
cabresult 26 338495 25 0 0 e4d5
cabresult 26 97903 24 0 0 e4e5
cabresult 26 252430 24 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 26 129793 20 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 26 159862 25 0 0 b1c3
cabresult 26 7584 18 0 0
cabresult 26 47832 19 0 0
cabresult 26 75082 20 0 0
cabresult 26 16486 19 0 0
cabresult 26 86912 23 0 0 b1c3
cabresult -26 206582 24 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -26 136815 24 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -26 435541 26 0 0 d7d5
cabresult -31 7386986 34 0 0 d7d5 d2d4 f8b4 e4e5 g8e7 g1f3 c7c5 a2a3 b4c3 b2c3 d
8a5 c1d2 b8c6 f1d3
cabresult -41 2653464 30 0 0 d7d5 e4e5 c8d7 d2d4 c7c5 b1c3 d8b6
cabresult 15 7835918 31 0 0 b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 f1c4 f8c5 d2d3 e8g8 c1g5 h7h6 g5
e3 c5e3 f2e3
cabresult -15 791558 27 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -15 1282945 29 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -15 4345991 31 0 0 d7d5
cabresult -28 116828 22 0 0
cabresult -28 113577 22 0 0
cabresult -28 98282 24 0 0
cabresult -28 11551 18 0 0
cabresult -7 4075571 32 0 0 c8f5 c1f4 e7e6 e2e3 f8d6 f4d6 d8d6 b1c3 g8f6 f1b5 b8
d7 b5d3 f5d3 d1d3 e8g8 e1g1
cabresult -22 87922 22 0 0
cabresult -22 207023 21 0 0
cabresult -22 64187 21 0 0
cabresult -22 73210 20 0 0
cabresult -22 33349 17 0 0
cabresult -22 35630 20 0 0
cabresult -22 628393 26 0 0 d5e4
cabresult 22 3369764 33 0 0 e2e4
cabresult 22 41094 19 0 0
cabresult -29999 422418 24 0 0
cabresult -22 4876325 32 0 0 g8f6
cabresult -22 1003256 27 0 0 b8c6
cabresult -22 852797 26 0 0
cabresult -29999 752999 27 0 0
cabresult -6 6298920 34 0 0 c8f5 c1f4 e7e6 e2e3 f8d6 f4d6 d8d6 b1c3 b8c6 f1b5 g8
e7 e1g1 e8g8 f3h4 f7f6 h4f5 e7f5


This can be replicated with more clients on different ports, with more "server_createremoteclient"s. Strangely enough, this appears to be doing real clustering. I really have no idea how he did this, save for getting the Jonny code.

[F. Bluemers]

if its not from johnny,the cloner stole from two people atleast

[Zach Wegner]

Well it's not from Beowulf, which is the only open source engine I know of that has any distributed search capability at all.

[Graham Banks]

You are ready to accept usage of German language as a proof for clone,but you do not want to accept complete disassembled code from RYBKA 1.0 BETA,namely the uci go parser which happenes to match exactly with Fruit as a proof,Double standards

Any proof related to Vasik Rajlich & Rybka that was put in front of you,you rejected it,even if it was from the exe of rybka 1.0 beta... & it mathced with open source fruit.

You want to accept that uci go is not enough a proof against Rybka,because its not core part of it,usage of German is even smaller & indeed allowed legitimate usage for anyone,

I must say I do understand your point here, and somewhat agree there is a double standard...

Fair enough, although I believe that the group working on Rybka 1.0 have still to present their case in full.
If Christopher tells me he is 100% certain that Rybka 1.0 is a Fruit 2.1 clone, I'd be inclined to believe him. However I can tell you that CCRL correlation stats have these two engines miles apart.

[Roman Hartmann]

Well it's not from Beowulf, which is the only open source engine I know of that has any distributed search capability at all.

There is also APILchess afaik.
No idea if this connected to Dolphin at all though, my comment is only adressing the statement above.

Roman

[F. Bluemers]

Winsock gestartet!
Socket erstellt!
Verbunden mit 127.0.0.1...

As the winsock calls are german too,they might come from Johnny as well.
Maybe a private version and/or a version to play remote too.
Best
Fonzy

[Graham Banks]

Winsock gestartet!
Socket erstellt!
Verbunden mit 127.0.0.1...

As the winsock calls are german too,they might come from Johnny as well.
Maybe a private version and/or a version to play remote too.
Best
Fonzy

Hi Graham,

thanks for notifying me about this. Although I can´t understand why the hell somebody wants to clone a non top-level engine like Jonny, from the strings I´ve seen in the forum I´m nearly sure that it must be a clone and further more from a very recent, not published version of Jonny.

Best
Johannes

[Johannes Zwanzger]

Hi all,

as the author of Jonny I want to give my comment to the Dolphin discussion.

I just received the dolphin.exe from Graham Banks, but already from what has been posted by Christopher Conkie and Zach Wegner I was absolutely sure that Dolphin would be a Jonny clone.
As far as I remember the last public version of Jonny was 2.83, this one was Winboard only. The version which was cloned here is Jonny 3.06 (the first one after Beijing 2008). The versions after 2.83 were only sent to people who were explicitely asking for it. In particular, there are only 2 persons who got v. 3.06 personally from me...

At first glance it seemed as if only some strings in the exe would have been modified, but after having run the dolphin.exe I realized that also some of Jonny´s functions have been disabled.

For example, after entering "benchmark [enter]" Jonny normally would start an implemented benchmark (for the positions with the FEN-notation shown in Christopher Conkie´s posting; I don´t think that I´ve changed them since v. 2.83, so everybody can try this out by himself). Dolphin doesn´t react on the command.

Further, since version 2.90, Jonny is mainly a UCI engine but I never removed the functions for the Winboard protocol. Therefore, Jonny still can be run as a Winboard engine (e.g. in Winboard or Arena). In Dolphin, Winboard support was disabled. However, you can catch some remaining "artefacts" from it by starting the Dolphin.exe in the console without entering anything and closing it by CTRL-C. I get the following output:

feature myname="Chess 3.06" sigint=0
feature variants="normal,fischerandom"
No opening book found...
Looking for tablebases in <empty>

These are clearly Winboard commands. They also show which Jonny version was cloned (it seems to me that the string "Jonny" was simply replaced by "Chess" throughout the executable except for the engine name)

The network clustering discovered by Zach Wegner is there in Jonny since v. 2.90, but it is still weak and I never used it in tournaments. I just implemented it because it was very cheap to get since Jonny´s parallelization mechanism works close to the root (therefore network latency does not matter too much) and is mainly based on the concept of clients taking a position and returning a value for it (without any explicit communication among them). Therefore, it does not matter (in principal) whether the client code is executed on the local or a remote machine. It was only a work of 2 or 3 hours to generalize the concept for a cluster. The problem is that if the clients are not run on the same machine, the hash table is not shared and therefore the "speed up" is quite bad. (This year in Beijing I used a better cluster mode where the clients did some kind of pondering while the master was still thinking on its move; you won´t find this functionality in dolphin.exe as I disabled the corresponding compiler switch when building Jonny v3.06).

So, I hope I could clarify the situation a bit, best
Johannes Zwanzger (author of Jonny)

[Tuvoc]

And in the meantime, Mr "Anthony Matthews" is strangely quiet.... unless his account here has already been deactivated

[Gábor Szots]

there are only 2 persons who got v. 3.06 personally from me...

Hmm, so we (you) know with 50 % certainty the real name of Anthony Matthews?

[Zach Wegner]

I believe the administrators here know with 100% certainty.

[Zach Wegner]

Thanks for your comments Johannes. It's a shame that we still have to deal with this...

I had noticed that the benchmark function is there, but the "benchmark" string in the exe was simply zeroed out, so as to be something like this:

Code: Select all

if (string_equal(input, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"))
    bench();

Anyways, the clustering looks pretty cool. I have been looking into this for a while (just in the design phase now though), so good luck with that. At least if they allow you to use it next WCCC.

Zach

[Christopher Conkie]

I believe the administrators here know with 100% certainty.

Here is the news....coming to you every hour....on the hour.

http://www.yod2007.org/en/NewsEvents/Initiative_in_Mumbai,_India.html



Christopher

[Matthias Gemuh]

there are only 2 persons who got v. 3.06 personally from me...

Hmm, so we (you) know with 50 % certainty the real name of Anthony Matthews?

What I understand is that "Anthony Matthews" got the engine from one of the two guys who received it from Johannes.


Matthias.

[El Gringo]

I believe the administrators here know with 100% certainty.

Shouldn't we start a poll ?

Sad, very sad this still happens...But i'm the lucky owner of Jonny 3.06 now , already removed from my HD.

Best
Johan

[Teemu Pudas]

there are only 2 persons who got v. 3.06 personally from me...

Hmm, so we (you) know with 50 % certainty the real name of Anthony Matthews?

Cloners don't get names until/unless they apologize (unless the clone was legit to begin with, of course). This one is called "Dehumanized internet entity #1098381921" (dolphin in base-26 with a=0).

[Olivier Deville]

And in the meantime, Mr "Anthony Matthews" is strangely quiet.... unless his account here has already been deactivated

Hi Tuvoc

Nothing was done so far about his account, let's see if he is able to post more lies.

Actually banning such people is not even worth the effort : as you suggest, "Anthony Matthews" is obviously a fake identity.

Olivier

[George Speight]

Back up in the threads where Graham said something to the effect that CCRL wasnt testing this engine because it was a clone, or appeared to be so- or something to that effect- what he said was VERY PROPER. Im not posting this to defend him- but to make a point. When an UNKNOWN author pops up with an UNKNOWN program that is most likely in the top 10 in the world- or even the top 20- never heard of before- he is guilty. Meaning he should never have the benefit of the doubt. The onus is on him to prove his engine is legit- to convince everyone. It is not on us to prove anything. Because 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time it is a clone. That leaves a little wiggle room- but not much. And comparing this to anything Vas has done or come up with is like comparing apples to bricks. So dont start down that rocky road. Take, on the other hand, an unknown author who comes up with an unheard of program that is in the 1900 to 2300 elo range, or anything comparable- and you have a whole diff. scenario. He doesnt have as much he has to prove- meaning we are not watching him with as close an eye as compared to the above example. Anyone who cant see and doesnt understand that..........


Best,

[Graham Banks]

Back up in the threads where Graham said something to the effect that CCRL wasnt testing this engine because it was a clone, or appeared to be so- or something to that effect- what he said was VERY PROPER. Im not posting this to defend him- but to make a point. When an UNKNOWN author pops up with an UNKNOWN program that is most likely in the top 10 in the world- or even the top 20- never heard of before- he is guilty. Meaning he should never have the benefit of the doubt. The onus is on him to prove his engine is legit- to convince everyone. It is not on us to prove anything. Because 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time it is a clone. That leaves a little wiggle room- but not much. And comparing this to anything Vas has done or come up with is like comparing apples to bricks. So dont start down that rocky road. Take, on the other hand, an unknown author who comes up with an unheard of program that is in the 1900 to 2300 elo range, or anything comparable- and you have a whole diff. scenario. He doesnt have as much he has to prove- meaning we are not watching him with as close an eye as compared to the above example. Anyone who cant see and doesnt understand that..........


Best,

I wouldn't put it quite so harshly. Innocent until proven guilty should always apply. However, we do have to be circumspect, because we don't want to waste our time or money (electricity bills, hardware usage) on illegal clones.
And certainly in the case of a completely unheard of author coming up with a world class engine, careful inspection of the engine is a necessary prerequisite to testing.
I made an error in stating a suspicion without posting the proof, something I criticised others for doing previously. However, fortunately the case was proven in the end.