noGUI command option

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noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 26 Jul 2009, 22:56

Hi all;

At http://www.gnu.org/software/xboard/manual/xboard.html I found the option noGUI, which is supose to acomplish this:
-noGUI
Suppresses all GUI functions of XBoard (to speed up automated ultra-fast engine-engine games, which you don’t want to watch). There will be no board or clock updates, no printing of moves, and no update of the icon on the task bar in this mode.


I tried this but does not work with WinBoard (option no found error), is this an Xboard only function? And if so, is it possible to integrate it in feature Winboard versions?

Thanks in advance,

matematiko
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby vladstamate » 27 Jul 2009, 16:52

I would LOVE that option in Winboard. This is my vote for the feature request.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 28 Jul 2009, 08:35

WinBoard does support this as well as XBoard. Are you sure you were running the correct version, though?
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 29 Jul 2009, 02:40

H.G.Muller wrote:WinBoard does support this as well as XBoard. Are you sure you were running the correct version, though?


What version will this be Mr. Muller ? I tried with the latest Gold Pack and I got "Unrecognize argument noGUI" error.

Thanks,
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 29 Jul 2009, 09:28

The Gold Pack contains WinBoard 4.3.15, but the manual you were quoting is for version 4.4.0. This version is not officially released yet, although the sources are available from the GNU website, and can be compiled for both XBoard and WinBoard. I also have compiled versions of both on my website (xboard_4.4.0~hgm-2_i386.deb, winboard.zip) for beta testing. I don't know where you picked up the 4.4.0 manual, it could be from one of these.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 31 Jul 2009, 19:34

H.G.Muller wrote:...... I don't know where you picked up the 4.4.0 manual.......


From here sir:
http://www.gnu.org/software/xboard/manual/xboard.html

Looks like they released the manual before the program... :shock:

That explains the confusion.

Thanks a lot for the clarification, have a nice weekend sir.

Cheers,
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby Marc Lacrosse » 31 Jul 2009, 21:54

H.G.Muller wrote:The Gold Pack contains WinBoard 4.3.15, but the manual you were quoting is for version 4.4.0. This version is not officially released yet, although the sources are available from the GNU website, and can be compiled for both XBoard and WinBoard. I also have compiled versions of both on my website (xboard_4.4.0~hgm-2_i386.deb, winboard.zip) for beta testing. I don't know where you picked up the 4.4.0 manual, it could be from one of these.


Having downloaded winboard.zip yesterday from your site, it seems I cannot get the noGUI option to work here.
Both -noGUI or -noGUI=true on the command line do not seem to work : winboard starts minimized but I can maximize it to a normal window with normal graphical update after each move (and in the same time the icon in the taskbar is updated from black to white and so after each move).

Any help ?

Thanks.

Marc
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 01 Aug 2009, 10:27

This is a bit puzzling. I downloded the winboard.zip from my own website to make sure I have not mixed up versions (it should say version 4.4.0j), and when I start it in a virgin folder through the startup menu, putting -noGUI in the "additional options" field, the option does seem to work. (There should be no true or false argument with it.)

It does not start as iconic, though, which is normal: I have not programmed that,( although I fully agree that it would be better, and I would like to), simply because I don't know enough about Windows API to know how to do it.

You will still see board and pieces (but no clocks); it is only the update during play that is suppressed. Board updates in reaction to operator commands, e.g. using the <<, <, > or >> buttons, will work normally. (It seemed useful to keep the possibility to peek at the games, e.g. you are doing a match, and one of the games sees to drag on forever, and you now wonder why. People that don't want this can simply refrain from operating the buttons. So I only suppressed what happens automatically.)

I tried both starting through the startup dialog and with -noGUI -cp -fcp ... -scp ... -mg 2 from the command line, and in both cases the board pops up in the opening position, but is not updated when the engines play, there are no clocks, and there is no update of the icon on the task bar.

Starting as iconic would be more convenient; when I programmed the -noGUI option I was under the impression that there already existed an option to do that, but it turns out I was wrong. (The field for it in appData does exist, but it is not used.)
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby Marc Lacrosse » 01 Aug 2009, 14:25

H.G.Muller wrote:This is a bit puzzling. I downloded the winboard.zip from my own website to make sure I have not mixed up versions (it should say version 4.4.0j), and when I start it in a virgin folder through the startup menu, putting -noGUI in the "additional options" field, the option does seem to work. (There should be no true or false argument with it.)

It does not start as iconic, though, which is normal: I have not programmed that,( although I fully agree that it would be better, and I would like to), simply because I don't know enough about Windows API to know how to do it.

You will still see board and pieces (but no clocks); it is only the update during play that is suppressed. Board updates in reaction to operator commands, e.g. using the <<, <, > or >> buttons, will work normally. (It seemed useful to keep the possibility to peek at the games, e.g. you are doing a match, and one of the games sees to drag on forever, and you now wonder why. People that don't want this can simply refrain from operating the buttons. So I only suppressed what happens automatically.)

I tried both starting through the startup dialog and with -noGUI -cp -fcp ... -scp ... -mg 2 from the command line, and in both cases the board pops up in the opening position, but is not updated when the engines play, there are no clocks, and there is no update of the icon on the task bar.

Starting as iconic would be more convenient; when I programmed the -noGUI option I was under the impression that there already existed an option to do that, but it turns out I was wrong. (The field for it in appData does exist, but it is not used.)


It seems like I mixed things somewhere : I just retried and everything works like you say.

For those who do prefer WB starting as iconic there is a simple way to do it : just do launch winboard throuh a "start /MIN winboard.exe" command. For example I use a little tournament management utility of my own for some test.
Each game is launched through a line in a batch file. A typical line looks like this :

Code: Select all
start /MIN wb.exe /cp /mg={1} /ponderNextMove=false /noGUI  /sgf={.\test-04d-01.pgn} /fd={.\} /sd={.\} /scp={pg14.exe PG-Glaurung12-Def-perf.ini} /fcp={pg14.exe PG-GF4bx-def-perf.ini} /tc={0:14} /mps={120} /inc={0} /td={2.0}


This works very well with your 4.4.0j version (by the way, would you consider naming it winboard-4.4.0j-beta.exe or something like this on your site instead of simply winboard.exe?)

Thanks again, and sorry for the erroneous report.

Marc
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 03 Aug 2009, 05:05

Mr. Muller:

I tried the winbaord.exe from your site (for practipal purposes I renamed it to winbaord-4.4.0.exe and copied it to my winboard folder where all my books and table bases are). Under Help, About Winboard, shows: WinBoard 4.4.0j.

I tried two ways:
-Created a shortcut with these parameters:
Code: Select all
C:\Winboard\winboard-4.4.0.exe /noGUI /zp /ics /icshost 127.0.0.1 /icsport 6000 /fcp="polyglot14w4.exe polyglot.ini"


- Tried Mr. Lacrosse batch file, winbaord-4.4.0.bat:
Code: Select all
start /MIN winboard-4.4.0.exe /noGUI /zp /ics /icshost 127.0.0.1 /icsport 6000 /fcp="polyglot14w4.exe polyglot.ini"


In both cases the clocks stopped updating and the icon(knight) at the bottom of the screen also stops changing colors but the board keeps updating the moves.

Am I missing something? Is this because I am in ICS mode? And if so, can this be corrected?

Maybe this feature was meant only for having two engines playing. Can you please elaborate the intentions/conditions/enviroments of this feature?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 03 Aug 2009, 08:46

Indeed I only tested this feature in two-machines mode, as the main interest seemed to be in ultra-fast engine-engine games. I guess that in ICS mode it ues an alternative way to update the board. (Actually I should have anticipated that; in ICS mode WinBoard does not make moves from a previous position, but gets sent an entirely new board by the ICS after every move.) I probably mised that.

I will see if I can fix that, so that the board update is suppressed in ICS play as well, as this feature seems also usefl for people that want to operate an ICS bot.

Thanks for spotting this.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 03 Aug 2009, 12:53

Mr. Muller,

Thanks a bunch in aticipation for your willingness to address the issue.

I hope is not too much trouble.

Cheers,


Mr. Lacrosse,

Can you please tell us the average times gained (like in milliseconds per move) by supresing the GUI?
Thanks.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 04 Aug 2009, 08:59

What application do you have in mind for running in -noGUI + ICS mode? My reason for adding it was to minimize the time wasted by the GUI in very fast (sub-10-sec) engine-engine games, where the gaphical functions (and as it seems, especially the system function for changing the icon) start to take a large fraction of the time. But I suppose that in ICS play this is not really an issue: you wold be dominated by the server lag anyway, and I don't think you can even to TCs faster than 1-min.

The reason I ask is that I want to know if it would desirable to take out the setting of the message in the title bar of the main window. This title also occurs in the iconized window on the task bar, and winBoard does set it on every move (because it contains the material count). I can imagine that for running an engine drone it could still be of some interest to see on the task bar that the engine is playing, and against whom. If I take that out, it would display engine@freechess.org all the time.

What would be most useful: take it out or leave it in?
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 04 Aug 2009, 13:35

Mr. Muller,

In a previous topic or e-mail message (I don't remember), I explained I belong to a group of engine vs. engine players, and a large portion of this group (me included) are addicted to 1/0 games. The record so far is a game that when of to 297 moves in one minute, and quite often they reach 180-200 moves. As you said, server lag is a big factor and there is nothing we can do about it, that's why we are in search of anything that can help the engine to have more time to think and reduce blundering. Even few seconds won it is a lot in 1/0 games.

Concerning your question about "taking out the setting of the message in the title bar of the main window", if you think that won't affect the functionality seek by other kind of WinBoard users, we will appreciate it if you take that one off as well.

Thanks again,
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby H.G.Muller » 05 Aug 2009, 09:24

OK, try the WinBoard that is on my website now.
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Re: noGUI command option

Postby matematiko » 05 Aug 2009, 13:30

Mr. Muller,

It works indeed, :D

Thank you very much...you are "da man"!!!!,
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