.ctg Books in Winboard via Aquarium Book Adapter

[Gábor Szots]

No, what gave you that idea? (I mean, what does the "this" in "Does this mean" refer to?)

Thanks for the reply.

This was the first sentence of the topic, which led me to think WB engines were handicapped.

"I'm sure some others here have already tried it but I was curious to see if the free Convekta Aquarium Book Adapter could be used to have UCI engines use .ctg books in Winboard, so I finally broke down and tried it and it worked."

I still don't know how to use ctg books as generic books under WB but I guess I can work it out for myself.

[H.G.Muller]

That's a bit overweening, isn't it?

IMO it's not you to decide whether an engine option is 'completely useless' or not - it's the decision of the engine author (or at least of the user if he needs and want to use this option at all).

Sure, I was not thinking of engine options. I was thinking of Polyglot options that were once useful, because they allowed you to do badly needed things for UCI engines, but now have become redundant because that functionality has been moved to the GUI. (So that both WB and UCI engines can use them.)

[Michel]

a large number of completely useless options

I think it is best that you fork polyglot or write you own UCI implementation. It is not meant a blackmail but I simply think it is best. I don't feel I have to continuously justify every feature or option that is in PG. And even if I wanted to I know it would be pointless.

Fabien Letouzey is a great programmer so the source code of PG is pretty easy to work with.

[Charles Browne]

No, what gave you that idea? (I mean, what does the "this" in "Does this mean" refer to?)

Thanks for the reply.

This was the first sentence of the topic, which led me to think WB engines were handicapped.

"I'm sure some others here have already tried it but I was curious to see if the free Convekta Aquarium Book Adapter could be used to have UCI engines use .ctg books in Winboard, so I finally broke down and tried it and it worked."

"I'm sure some others here have already tried it but I was curious to see if the free Convekta Aquarium Book Adapter could be used to have UCI engines use .ctg books in Winboard, so I finally broke down and tried it and it worked."

Sorry, that was a poor choice of words by me.

I meant if the Convekta Aquarium Book Adapter could be used in the Winboard GUI via the polyglot adapter.

The Aquarium Book Adapter itself (according to what I've read) can only be used with UCI engines (and Interfaces such as Arena, etc. that allow the use/importing of UCI protocol engines) so yes to use the adapter out-of-the-box with Winboard Engines in the Winboard GUI is not possible unless someone really wants to try it with a set up like this, which I have not attempted personally:


WB engine <-> WB2UCI Adapter <-> Aquarium Adapter <-> Polyglot Adapter <-> Winboard GUI


Not exactly sure where the Aquarium adapter would be placed in the above line but it shows what adapters would have to be used. (The above string order is correct though, I think.)


Though I specifically stated .ctg books in the topic heading, opening books made with/by the Aquarium program can also be used with the Aquarium adapter.

**************************************

On a side note, H.G. Muller does have it in his Winboard GUI versions where Winboard engines can use polyglot books directly with the information inputted into the GUI, no adapter needed, just the polyglot book I think.

[Gábor Szots]

The Aquarium Book Adapter itself (according to what I've read) can only be used with UCI engines (and Interfaces such as Arena, etc. that allow the use/importing of UCI protocol engines) so yes to use the adapter out-of-the-box with Winboard Engines in the Winboard GUI is not possible unless someone really wants to try it with a set up like this, which I have not attempted personally:


WB engine <-> WB2UCI Adapter <-> Aquarium Adapter <-> Polyglot Adapter <-> Winboard GUI


Not exactly sure where the Aquarium adapter would be placed in the above line but it shows what adapters would have to be used. (The above string order is correct though, I think.)

Thanks for the explanation, that line really frightens me off using this adapter.

[H.G.Muller]

This is why I was considering making a converter to convert ctg books to polyglot format. WinBoard engines culd then use them as GUI book.

[Gábor Szots]

This is why I was considering making a converter to convert ctg books to polyglot format. WinBoard engines culd then use them as GUI book.

At the moment I am quite satisfied with the "-lgf xxx.pgn -lgi=y" command line method of using start positions. The only thing I have to do is manufacture a suitable pgn limited to e.g. 10 moves. Currently I use Arena for this but possibly it can be done with the CB GUI as well (I haven't tried).

[admax]

hello!

did you manage to write a code to read a .ctg book ?

i am writing a small gui, using c++, all is working fine but i can read "only" polyglot books, because here you explained how to read moves inside .bin books, thanks to polyglot open format (http://alpha.uhasselt.be/Research/Algebra/Toga/book_format.html with pg_key.c and pg_show.c is great !)

or is it possible to get the source code for Aquarium Book Adapter (it is a free program so maybe the creator would accept to tell the source code)?

thanks!

[H.G.Muller]

Yes, I wrote code to read a ctg book. But I did not write the code to write it back as as a Polyglot book yet, because I am not sure how to translate the info in the ctg book (positon statistics, move annotations) into info that should go into a Polyglot book (move weights). To make sure playing from the converted Polyglot book would do exactly the same as playing from a ctg book with a GUI using ctg books, it would be needed to know how the ctg probing code uses the information stored in the book, and it seems this requires some reverse engineering. (Which I started at the Rybka forum, but I had not too much time lately to pursue that further.)

Note that knowing how to read a book (scanning through it from start to end, going through all stored positions) is not the same as probing a book (quickly finding one particular position).

[admax]

thanks for your quick answer!

yes when i said "read inside the book" i meant: given a position (a fen position) , how to find the "best" move or one "random" move in the .ctg book... they manage to do this with the aquarium book adapter, but is it possible to get the code for this....

thanks for your help

[H.G.Muller]

I would be surprised if you could get the code for this. The ctg book contains raw position statistics (nr of wins / draws / losses), and it should be easy to decide on basis of that info what move to play. But you probably would not play the moves with exactly the same probability as the acquariium book adapter would, gven the same book.

[Pablo]

Hello Charles,
Congratulations for the quite didactic comments about configuring the Aquarium Book Adapter(ABA). I have the Rybka Aquarium Demo program and the integrated Aquarium Book Adapter.
I have some questions although.
1)At the ABAgui.exe book options appear the name of several books such as NarrowBook.WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book etc.etc., but I do not have none of those books. My books for Rybka/Chessbase are composed of 4 files with extensions .ctg,.ini,.ctb.cto called Classic,2550ELO,RybkaII,andTest. How I can select them?
2)When you explain how to create the Tree configuration file with the Aquarium program open, you indicate to click SandBox,then click Tree and then click "Load Ctg", but I do not find any option saying "Load CTG" !!!!. Please you r help regarding this issue, maybe I have to create a CTG folder somewhere with all the books files inside that now I have scattered in several different programs.
Mi great interest is too play with Rybka 2.32 engine at Winboard using Polyglot and with the Rybka books instead of polyglot books and also at Arena using the own Rybka book instead of the Arena books.
Any guide or hint of how to do it will be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Pablo Urzua

where can I find this book adapter?

Well I have questions about it also. This is a hypothetical question in reference to the stand alone adapter not the integrated Aquarium one. Suppose I set up a ctg book to be used with the adapter, I have made the tree file for the adapter to use and everything. But then say I edit the ctg in Fritz or Chessbase. Do I then need to come back and make a new tree file for the adapter to use because the ctg book was edited - in even a minor way?


********************************************

The integrated (for use within Aquarium) adapter and the stand alone adapter can be gotten here.

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=11192


I just made a directory for the adapter on my harddrive and extracted the stand alone adapter zip file into it. Clicking on the included GUI and closing it, a folder named Config is made in the adapter folder.

BTW, from what I read the integrated adapter can only be used by putting it in one of the Aquarium program folders. That is why I chose the stand alone one, it can be put anywhere on the harddrive and the Aquarium program for it is only used to make the required tree file entry. And I might not be exact on this but another difference between the two adapter versions is that the integrated one can use multiple books with an engine, or something like that, and the stand alone adapter can only use one book with an engine. But don't quote me on that because I'm not positive. There is some kind of use difference(s) between the two adapters though.

Next, with Aquarium installed and the program opened. Click on "Sandbox" in the lower left corner of the app and then click on "Tree" in the top menu. Then click on "Load CTG". Then choose the ctg book (the way it looks, it seems the ctg book can be kept anywhere on the harddrive but in trying it out I kept the test book in the adapter's directory). Once the ctg book is chosen a dialog box pops up and click "next", then "next" again and then "finish". And then close the Aquarium program. This process has made a tree configuration file entry for the chosen ctg book (should have anyway). For understandable reasons, ctg books used within the Aquarium program are read-only (I believe).

Then in the Aquarium program directory, locate the "tree_configurations.xml" file that is in the "Config" folder and copy this file to the "Config" folder that is in the adapter directory. It will overwrite the existing "empty" xml file that is already there.

Now I do not know if this next step is necessary but I at this point I did it anyway because I had read that other people trying to install the stand alone adapter also did this step and according to what they wrote it appeared to be a necessary thing to do. I figured no damage done so I did as they had written down:

In the Aquarium program directory find and copy the "ATrees" directory and all of its contents to the stand alone book adapter directory. Now in the book adapter directory there should be two directories. One named "Config" and the newly added "ATrees".

When the book adapter's GUI is opened, in the book list the newly added ctg book(s) should be among the book selections possible. I did try to remove the other books from the selection since they are really "dummy" books at this point, but I was unable to do so. I don't know if I just did the process wrong or if it is a limitation of the demo version of Aquarium. Also, the book adapter's GUI just facilitates the process of making entries to the AquariumBookAdapter.ini file. That ini file can actually be changed manually instead.


Once you have added the book to the book adapter and made any desired settings changes, in the polyglot.ini file add the AquariumBookAdapter.exe file as the engine. If an engine has an ownbook entry in the engine section of the polyglot.ini file, I don't know if it makes a difference whether or not it is set to true or false. I just set it to true in the tests.



I did use the demo version of Aquarium to make the tree file and once the tree file has been made and moved, the demo version can actually be uninstalled without any adverse consequences taking place. The stand alone adapter and any added ctg books will still function. I also used the demo version because my old PC/OS and the Aquarium program do not play well together. I would like to purchase the Aquarium program, but with the demo, if I click various buttons sometimes, just clicking a button causes the computer to freak out. So I'm content with having been able to at least make the tree file to use with ctg books.

I had to give up using Aquarium Book Adapter for Rybka in OpenWar though, after Rybka exited from memory in 2 games just after the opening moves.

Good to know the adapter needs to be kept an eye on and not to naively trust it at first uses.



BTW, these are the entries that were recorded into the tree_configurations.xml file for the Perfect 2009 book when it was added as a ctg book in Aquarium. Just posting it so it can be seen what the entries, in general, look like.

Code: Select all

    <item name="Perfect 2009" opening_book="0" book_width="1" book_alpha="2" main_tree="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" discarded_tree="discarded" only_main_tree="0">
      <column name="mf" display_name="flg" column_type="16" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="27"/>
      <column name="md" display_name="disc" column_type="19" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="78"/>
      <column name="mc" display_name="col" column_type="18" tree_path="discarded" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="78"/>
      <column name="mo" display_name="ord" column_type="17" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="78"/>
      <column name="col22" display_name="N" column_type="0" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="0"/>
      <column name="col23" display_name="succ" column_type="1" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="0"/>
      <column name="col21" display_name="cap" column_type="5" tree_path="cap" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="56"/>
      <column name="mants" display_name="Annot" column_type="15" tree_path="C:\Program Files\Chess\Book Adapter\Perfect 2009.ctg" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="1"/>
      <column name="eval" display_name="Eval" column_type="4" tree_path="statistics\eval" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="1"/>
      <column name="ntot" display_name="Total" column_type="0" tree_path="statistics\d2m" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="1"/>
      <column name="succtot" display_name="SUCC" column_type="1" tree_path="statistics\d2m" weight="0" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="1"/>
      <column name="7" display_name="dEval" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="5" function="std.diff_eval(%width%)" Width="33"/>
      <column name="8" display_name="EvalCap" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="5,6" function="std.eval_minus_cap(%width%)" Width="36"/>
      <column name="9" display_name="dCAP" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="6" function="std.diff_eval(%width%)" Width="33"/>
      <column name="10" display_name="NoStat" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="std.no_statistics(%width%)" Width="36"/>
      <column name="11" display_name="dSuccCAP" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="std.bad_success(%width%)" Width="39"/>
      <column name="12" display_name="dRat" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="std.low_rating(%width%)" Width="66"/>
      <column name="bCTG1" display_name="BCTG1" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="1" visible="0" lookup_column="md" function="constant" Width="57"/>
      <column name="bTot" display_name="BTot" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="9" visible="0" lookup_column="col22" function="identity" Width="51"/>
      <column name="bRat" display_name="BRat" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="r" function="std.rating_base" Width="39"/>
      <column name="bCAP" display_name="BCap" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="1" visible="0" lookup_column="col21" function="mainbook.cap" Width="44"/>
      <column name="bCAPRel" display_name="BCapRel" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="3" visible="0" lookup_column="6" function="mainbook.cap.rel" Width="49"/>
      <column name="bEval" display_name="BEval" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="5" function="mainbook.cap" Width="49"/>
      <column name="bSuc" display_name="BSuc" column_type="8" tree_path="" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="std.multiplied_success" Width="0"/>
      <column name="sum" display_name="sum" column_type="9" tree_path="" weight="1" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="" Width="0"/>
      <column name="msum" display_name="Msum" column_type="11" tree_path="" weight="1" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="" Width="0"/>
      <column name="result" display_name="Play %" column_type="12" tree_path="" weight="1" visible="1" lookup_column="" function="" Width="63"/>
      <column name="mperc" display_name="pc" column_type="6" tree_path="discarded" weight="0" visible="0" lookup_column="" function="" Width="0"/>
      <display separate_ants="1" SortColumn="0"/>
      <insert_line col1="col21" col2=""/>
      <color_policy pri0="0" pri1="1" pri2="0" pri3="0" pri4="-1" pri5="0"/>
    </item>


On the Rybka website the webmaster there is writing a guide for using/installing the book adapter. I didn't use this guide to install the adapter, I actually used the information that people had supplied in various posts, but this guide on the Rybka site does explain the settings that are available for the book adapter.

http://rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Book+Adapter

[matematiko]

2)When you explain how to create the Tree configuration file with the Aquarium program open, you indicate to click SandBox,then click Tree and then click "Load Ctg", but I do not find any option saying "Load CTG" !!!!. Please you r help regarding this issue,

It should be there Pablo:



Cheers,

[Teemu Pudas]

2)When you explain how to create the Tree configuration file with the Aquarium program open, you indicate to click SandBox,then click Tree and then click "Load Ctg", but I do not find any option saying "Load CTG" !!!!.

New first step: update to the latest version. The button was added in 3.0.something.

[Pablo]

2)When you explain how to create the Tree configuration file with the Aquarium program open, you indicate to click SandBox,then click Tree and then click "Load Ctg", but I do not find any option saying "Load CTG" !!!!. Please you r help regarding this issue,

It should be there Pablo:



Cheers,

Hi Charles,
In my Aquarium Demo version instead of "Load CTG" appeared "Load Tree", but after I update the Demo version as suggested by Teemu Pudas, appeared "Load CTG" as you indicate.

Is still pending my first question:
At the ABAgui.exe book options appear the name of several books such as NarrowBook,WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book etc.etc., but I do not have none of those books. My books for Rybka/Chessbase are composed of 4 files with extensions .ctg,.ini,.ctb.cto called Classic,2550ELO,RybkaII,andTest. ¿How I can select one of them at the AquariumBookAdapterGui.exe?
Regads,
Pablo

[Charles Browne]

Hello Pablo, I am not expert on these things but I will try to give you this help. Others will have to provide you with more thorough information.

I have the Rybka Aquarium Demo program and the integrated Aquarium Book Adapter.

Unless you have a specific reason for wanting to use the Integrated Adapter, I suggest you change to the Stand-Alone Adapter.


The post for using the Stand-Alone adapter with Chessbase .ctg format opening books ended up on the Aquarium forum:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12212

Is still pending my first question:
At the ABAgui.exe book options appear the name of several books such as NarrowBook,WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book etc.etc., but I do not have none of those books.

These NarrowBook,WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book names are going to be opening books in the Aquarium opening book format.
Since the Aquarium software will not run well on my old computer I have only used the demo version of Aquarium. I say that to say that I have not yet really looked into making opening books in the Aquarium format. So in the Stand-Alone Book Adapter that I use, I have removed these Aquarium opening books from the ABAgui.exe selection list. Information on removing the books from the ABAgui.exe selection list is in the post linked to above from the Aquarium forum.


I have to say again that I have only used .ctg books with the Aquarium book adapter. I have not used Aquarium format books, so I am not exactly sure how to set up the Stand-Alone book adapter to use Aquarium books yet. Maybe in the distant future I will look to find out.


A lot of people know more about this stuff than I do, it is just that I happened to write a post about it. Good Luck.

[Charles Browne]

One more trick.

If two Stand-Alone book adapters are set up, then engine vs. engine games can be played with each engine using a .ctg book (or an Aquarium format opening book as the case may be).


How to.

1). Set up the first Stand-Alone book adapter in a folder, using the Aquarium program to do so.

Example of how to set up the Stand-Alone book adapter.

(I have to stress that setting up the Stand-Alone book adapter to use .ctg opening books is not difficult at all. I think that someone other than me could explain how to set up the book adapter in more simplier, easier to understand terms but it is not hard to set it up.)

1a). The .ctg opening books do not need to be in the same folder that the book adapter is in. The opening books can be kept anywhere on the harddrive.


2). Then make another folder and copy the contents of the first book adapters folder into this newly made second folder.

2b). If a .ctg book folder where the .ctg opening books are kept is in this first book adapter folder, then copy everything except the .ctg books folder to the newly made second book adapter folder.


The key to understanding this is that the tree_configurations.xml file that is in the first book adapter folder has the directory path information for any installed .ctg books. So when the files are copied to the second book adapter folder this path information is copied to the second folder too.



graphic example

[Olivier Deville]

Hi Charles

Feel free to post something in the How To section when you feel like it

Does anybody have run extensive tests with Aquarium Book Adapter by the way ? Here Rybka exits after the opening around 5% of the games (Noomen Aquarium book).

Olivier

[Pablo]

Hi Charles,
Many,many thanks for all your very didactic explanations,drawings,hints and links regarding use of integrated and standalone ABA.
Now I will "digest" and test all your valuable information.
Cheers,
Pablo

One more trick.

If two Stand-Alone book adapters are set up, then engine vs. engine games can be played with each engine using a .ctg book (or an Aquarium format opening book as the case may be).


How to.

1). Set up the first Stand-Alone book adapter in a folder, using the Aquarium program to do so.

Example of how to set up the Stand-Alone book adapter.

(I have to stress that setting up the Stand-Alone book adapter to use .ctg opening books is not difficult at all. I think that someone other than me could explain how to set up the book adapter in more simplier, easier to understand terms but it is not hard to set it up.)

1a). The .ctg opening books do not need to be in the same folder that the book adapter is in. The opening books can be kept anywhere on the harddrive.


2). Then make another folder and copy the contents of the first book adapters folder into this newly made second folder.

2b). If a .ctg book folder where the .ctg opening books are kept is in this first book adapter folder, then copy everything except the .ctg books folder to the newly made second book adapter folder.


The key to understanding this is that the tree_configurations.xml file that is in the first book adapter folder has the directory path information for any installed .ctg books. So when the files are copied to the second book adapter folder this path information is copied to the second folder too.



graphic example

[Pablo]

Hi Charles again,
Reading now your instructions how to use ABA at the Rybka Forum, you said at the end of it, that for playing at Winboard you must import the file Aquarium Book Adapter.exe and in the polyglot.ini you must write AquariumBookAdapter.exe as the chess engine. My doubt if it is not needed to write at the Polyglot.ini the "path" of were AquariumBookAdapter.exe originally was (Book Adapter Folder), since you import the file?
Regards,
Pablo

Hello Pablo, I am not expert on these things but I will try to give you this help. Others will have to provide you with more thorough information.

I have the Rybka Aquarium Demo program and the integrated Aquarium Book Adapter.

Unless you have a specific reason for wanting to use the Integrated Adapter, I suggest you change to the Stand-Alone Adapter.


The post for using the Stand-Alone adapter with Chessbase .ctg format opening books ended up on the Aquarium forum:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12212

Is still pending my first question:
At the ABAgui.exe book options appear the name of several books such as NarrowBook,WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book etc.etc., but I do not have none of those books.

These NarrowBook,WideBook,DeepAnalysis Book, Rybka3_hash book names are going to be opening books in the Aquarium opening book format.
Since the Aquarium software will not run well on my old computer I have only used the demo version of Aquarium. I say that to say that I have not yet really looked into making opening books in the Aquarium format. So in the Stand-Alone Book Adapter that I use, I have removed these Aquarium opening books from the ABAgui.exe selection list. Information on removing the books from the ABAgui.exe selection list is in the post linked to above from the Aquarium forum.


I have to say again that I have only used .ctg books with the Aquarium book adapter. I have not used Aquarium format books, so I am not exactly sure how to set up the Stand-Alone book adapter to use Aquarium books yet. Maybe in the distant future I will look to find out.


A lot of people know more about this stuff than I do, it is just that I happened to write a post about it. Good Luck.

Hi Charles a