Problem autoplaying on FICS with Fritz 11!

[matematiko]

Why is it looking for polygot_1st.ini when his command asks for just polyglot.ini? Which is the one he wants that has the engine he wants?

Me I'd see if I can get winboard to launch in yay first, then try to load an engine with it.
to do that.
first
Remove the the /zp command and the /fcp command and /fd and see if it works, then you can try to get polyglot in the mix. And /fUCI?

If he is going to involk polyglot as an engine he doesn't want that anyway. which is probably why it is looking for polyglot_1st.ini

He is trying an old version 4.3.15m (Assuming he follow the instructions in the guide above).

I was having an error "polyglot.ini" can not be found, or something like that, the problem got fixed when I found that the /fd was incorrect but I had added /fUCI before and I did not know what exactly fixed the problem so I left the /fUCI there. Yes you are right, I was able to launch the program without /fUCI but also makes no difference if is included.

Regards,

[matematiko]

Well, I played about 10 games in a row at freechess.org and the book and engine started just fine every time. The only problem I saw is that I lost two games on time, in both of these games I was heading to a checkmate. I do not know if is a matter of tweaking winboard, polyglot, Aquarium Book Adapter or all.

My support for this topic ends here because:

1.- I play at ICS once in every 20 blue moons.
2. I rarely used the Aquarium Book Adapter(love and prefer polyglot books) and when I do, I use an old version of WinBoard, and I play in POGO with my own ICS emulator which has mechanisms to force the engine to move when is running out of time.

So as you can see, it will be close to impossible for me to find the reason for any possible problems at freechess.org.

The road is paved, I hop I helped a little.

Good luck and have fun.

[H.G.Muller]

You should not both mention polyglot explicitly, and use the /fUCI option. /fUCI causes WinBoard to start up a polyglot automatically (with polyglot_1st.ini as argument), running the given engine. Because you also give Polyglot as an engine, it tries to use two Polyglots in tandem now. The /fUCI option should only be used when the mentioned /fcp is a true .exe file of a UCI engine.

[K Inuen]

You should not both mention polyglot explicitly, and use the /fUCI option. /fUCI causes WinBoard to start up a polyglot automatically (with polyglot_1st.ini as argument), running the given engine. Because you also give Polyglot as an engine, it tries to use two Polyglots in tandem now. The /fUCI option should only be used when the mentioned /fcp is a true .exe file of a UCI engine.

Okay before posting my question, I do have a working Polyglot/Winboard setup, along with individual .ini files for each engines. The difference here is, I use this format within my Winboard.ini file:

Code: Select all

/icsNames={chess.net /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /fcp="PolyGlot.exe PolyGlot_Houdini-1.5a-x64.ini"
.
.
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="PolyGlot.exe PolyGlot_Houdini-1.5a-x64.ini"
.
.
/secondChessProgramNames={"Critter 1.01 x64" /scp="PolyGlot.exe PolyGlot_Critter-1.01-x64.ini"

This format has always worked for me, both in online ICS mode and offline engine-engine matches. Likewise, I can select any engines I want for fcp and scp and not encounter problems since I already made .ini file for each engines, which are also registered in my Winboard.ini.

But, I've never tried the fcp + fd +fUCI and scp + sd +sUCI format. I tried to do engine-engine match between Houdini and Critter and also provided appropriate paths to each engines (I also made Polyglot_1st.ini and Polyglot_2nd.ini) for both Houdini and Critter respectivley, I get error:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

In my Winboard.ini, this is how the fcp +fd + fUCI format is arranged:

Code: Select all

/icsNames={chess.net /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
.
.
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
.
.
/secondChessProgramNames={"Critter 1.01 x64" /scp="Critter_1.01_64bit.exe" /sd="C:/PolyGlot64/Critter64" /sUCI

My "other" format works here but not this "fUCI" format. What I'm I doing wrong with the fUCI format? Why isn't Critter found, when I specified its correct path and also made a Polyglot_2nd.ini for it? Any help here?

Thanks.

[H.G.Muller]

It seems (in the second comobox) that you have made 'fcp=' part of the name of the engine executable, when specifying the fiename to WinBoard. But I wouldnot be surprised if you caually do not have a file called 'fcp=Critter...exe' at all, but have called it 'Critter...exe' in stead. In that case Polyglot would be justified in complaining the file does not exist.

[K Inuen]

It seems (in the second comobox) that you have made 'fcp=' part of the name of the engine executable, when specifying the fiename to WinBoard. But I wouldnot be surprised if you caually do not have a file called 'fcp=Critter...exe' at all, but have called it 'Critter...exe' in stead. In that case Polyglot would be justified in complaining the file does not exist.

Yes I noticed the fcp=Critter 1.01 64bit on the Winboard heading too. However, like you noticed, the actual executive file name of Critter is named Critter_1.01_x64.exe. You can imagine my bewilderment when I saw Houdini 1.5a x64 vs fcp=Critter 1.01 64bit.

So how is Polyglot justified calling Critter 1.01 x64 as fcp=Critter_1.01_64bit? Or, how can I make this problem go away? Keep in mind, I'm experimenting with this fcp + fd + f/sUCI format withing Winboard.ini for the sake of alternating. My usual Polyglot.exe with specified Polyglot-ini format works fine.

[H.G.Muller]

It justifies it by the fact that you have told it to do so, by putting "fcp=Critter...exe" in the second combobox (in your screenshot). Whatever is between the quotes will be used as engine command.

[K Inuen]

Okay, I got it and it's fixed now. Thanks

I deleted the fcp from the line; "fcp=Critter_1.01_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI in my Winboard.ini, so that it looks like this:
Critter_1.01_64bit.exe /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI.

Both engines now play against each other. But I feel something's not quite right, as Houdini 1.5a plays somewhat slow and it feels like my OS resources are being hoarded.

[H.G.Muller]

Well, can you check with the task manager if they are using the amount of memory and number of CPUs you specified?

[K Inuen]

Memory seems okay for both Houdini and Critter. 278,420k for Critter and 283,664k for Houdini. CPU-wise, 50/50 for both engines respectively, excluding minor fluctuations every now and then for each engine.

Right now the match is at 10/0. I'll test them at 1/0 to see if the f/sd + f/sUCI formats hinders engine's speed. My regular fcp=Polyglot.exe Polyglot_Engine-names.ini copes very well with any time set and no OS resource hoarding.

[H.G.Muller]

Well, if you see in the task manager that memory and CPU usage are OK, what resources could still be hoarded?

What Polyglot version were you using in your old setup? The /fUCI method of invoking Polyglot should be equivalent to running it with a polyglot.ini file that specifies only engine name+directory and EGTB cache size. The hash-table size and number of CPUs should in both cases be relayed through the protocol memory and cores command. You could look in the Engine Settings dialog of Houdini for both methods of invoking it, to see if there is any difference in the settings for the other engine options.

[K Inuen]

Well, if you see in the task manager that memory and CPU usage are OK, what resources could still be hoarded?

I can't really specify at this point. Compared with the /firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="PolyGlot.exe PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64.Ini" and "PolyGlot.exe PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64.Ini" format (which works well),
the /firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
and the "Houdini_1.5a_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI is much, much slower in any given time control games

What Polyglot version were you using in your old setup?

Your version of Polyglot; 1.4.66b. I have a feeling even if I try Michel's version, the slowdown observed with the /fUCI format will persist.

The /fUCI method of invoking Polyglot should be equivalent to running it with a polyglot.ini file that specifies only engine name+directory and EGTB cache size. The hash-table size and number of CPUs should in both cases be relayed through the protocol memory and cores command. You could look in the Engine Settings dialog of Houdini for both methods of invoking it, to see if there is any difference in the settings for the other engine options.

My /fUCI settings for both Polyglot_1st.ini (for Houdini) and Polyglot_2nd.ini (for Critter) are the same, including Hash, TB path, Polyglot book used etc.
But this slowdown is not encountered with the traditional format I use (highlighted in green font colour). Even though the /fUCI format/method now works on my end (though slow), I'll like to think there's something I'm not doing correctly that warrants this slowdown.

Thanks Mr. Muller.

[H.G.Muller]

I am not sure why you are mentioning polyglot_1st and 2nd.ini. Do you really have files with those names? Better delete them, then.

You must have polyglot.exe files in the WinBoard folder as well as in C:\Polyglot64\Houdini64. (And C:\Polyglot64\Critter64, etc.) Are you sure they are all the same version?

What is also interesting is what you have in the C:\Polyglot64\Houdini64\PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64.Ini file.

[K Inuen]

I am not sure why you are mentioning polyglot_1st and 2nd.ini. Do you really have files with those names? Better delete them, then.

Well I made the Polyglot_1st and 2nd.ini files because I was under the impression that they must be created for fcp and scp (and for Polyglot.exe) when using the fd + /fUCI format. However with the tradition format I normally use, I just create one Polyglot.ini for the Polyglot.exe

You must have polyglot.exe files in the WinBoard folder as well as in C:\Polyglot64\Houdini64. (And C:\Polyglot64\Critter64, etc.) Are you sure they are all the same version?

Yes I do have the Polyglot.exe and its Polyglot.ini, and the INI files for each engines in my PolyGlot64 folder, located in C:\ drive. Also my Winboard.exe and its Winboard.ini are placed in this PolyGlot64 folder. Each engines are placed in their respective named-folders. My BinBook folder (for bin books) is placed also within PolyGlot64 folder, so that it looks like this:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


I placed engine folders, Polyglot.exe (and its INI), Winboard.exe (and its INI) BinBook folder etc in PolyGlot64 folder for convenience and to have "a common path & navigation". Using my regular format (high lighted in green colour, in my previous post), this always works for me. Of course I could rearrange things but in the end, it's all about specifying the correct paths in each individualized INI files for engines.

With the fd + /fUCI format, I encounter some slowdown. Which brings me to another question: can individual INI files be created for each engines? Because this is where I had the assumption that Polyglot_1st.ini and Polyglot_2nd.ini must be created for /fUCI format?

What is also interesting is what you have in the C:\Polyglot64\Houdini64\PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64.Ini file.

True. Keep in mind I place everything and compartmentalize each folders in PolyGlot64 folder and use this format (which works fine):

/icsNames={freechess.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=5000 /zp /fcp="PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64-PL-1.4.50b.Ini"
chessclub.com /icsport=5000 /icshelper=timestamp
freechess.org /icsport=5000 /icshelper=timeseal
global.chessparlor.com /icsport=6000 /icshelper=timeseal
}
/singleEngineList=true
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Houdini1.5ax64-PL-1.4.50b.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Arasan11.7x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Arasan12.2x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Arasan12.3x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.1d-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.2c-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.3a-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.4a3-960-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.4a-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.5c-960-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Bright0.5c-SMP.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_ComStock1.0.2aWinXP-PP-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_ComStock1.0.2bWinXP-FixPP-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_ComStock1.0.2bWinXP-PP-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_ComStock1.0.2PP-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Crab1.0BetaDC-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Crab1.0Beta-PGO-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter0.60-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter0.70-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter0.80-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter0.90-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter1.00-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter1.01-x64.Ini"
"PolyGlot.Exe PolyGlot_Critter1.2-x64.Ini"

As you can see with this method (non fUCI format), each individual INI for each engines are linked with Polyglot.exe and everything usually runs fine. I have used this method for years.

But in fd + /fUCI method which I'm currently experimenting with, I haven't used these INI files for engines, which looks like this (by the way, I deleted the Polyglot_1st and 2nd.ini files):

/icsNames={freechess.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=5000 /zp /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
chessclub.com /icsport=5000 /icshelper=timestamp
freechess.org /icsport=5000 /icshelper=timeseal
global.chessparlor.com /icsport=6000 /icshelper=timeseall
}
/singleEngineList=true
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
"Arasan-11.7-SMP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
"Arasan-12.2-SMP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
"Arasan-12.3-SMP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
"Bobcat_20110220_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
"Bright-0.1d-SMP.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.2c-SMP-Fix.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.3a-SMP-Fix.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.4a3-960-SMP-Fix.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.4-SMP.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.5c-960-SMP.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"Bright-0.5c-SMP.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
"ComStock-1.0.2a-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"ComStock-1.0.2bWinXP-Fix-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"ComStock-1.0.2b-Fix-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"ComStock-1.0.2-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"ComStock-1.0.2WinXP-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"Crab-1.0Beta-DC-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"Crab-1.0Beta-PGO-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
"Critter_0.60_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_0.70_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_0.80_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_0.90_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_1.00_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_1.01_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI
"Critter_1.20_64bit.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

So if I were to create INI files for this /fUCI format, how would I link them up with Polyglot.exe? Maybe this is where the slowdown comes from.

PS: I took out the "code display" (

Code: Select all

 &

) symbol so that everything is plainly displayed "as is".

[H.G.Muller]

The user never had to create Polyglot_1st/2nd.ini files. The whole idea of the /fUCI format is that you would NOT have to (consciously) create ini files,or address Polyglot in any other way. Winboard_x created these files automatically in response to the /fUCI and /sUCI commands, to pass to polyglot.exe, to tell it where to find the engine file, how much hash and EGTB cache to use, and which book. But that system has been abandoned now too, because the modern Polyglot versions can be used without ini file (using the -noini option), passing part of this information on the command line, and another part through the protocol. So Polyglot_1st/2nd.ini are now neither made nor used by WinBoard or Polyglot.

When you use /fUCI, Polyglot is thus started without ini file, the engine .exe and folder specified on its command line, while it receives the hash size, EGTB cache size, Nalimov path and max nr of CPUs through protocol commands. All other engine settings will be left at their defaults, and if you don't want that, you will have to change them through the Engine Settings menu dialog. You can have Polyglot save the altered settings on an ini file, though (there is a save button for that in the Engine Settings dialog), and in that case Polyglot will read that ini file next time you run it with that engine again. For this the folder named _PG must exist (because it is where Polyglot tries to make its ini files with data the user lets it save).

So /fUCI does nothing else than run Houdini with default settings under Polyglot, specifying only hash size, nr of CPUs, EGTB cache and Nalimov path. It seems strange that you can get it in a state where it does not function properly, that way. Usually, to make it disfunction, you would have to send it some option settings that are not compatible with your system. (Like more hash memory than you physially have.) This is difficult when you send it almost nothing, unless the default settings are already incompatible with your system.

Hence my question: what settings are you running it with in the case where it works, and how do those differ from the settings that are used in the case where it doesn't work?

[K Inuen]

The user never had to create Polyglot_1st/2nd.ini files. The whole idea of the /fUCI format is that you would NOT have to (consciously) create ini files,or address Polyglot in any other way. Winboard_x created these files automatically in response to the /fUCI and /sUCI commands, to pass to polyglot.exe, to tell it where to find the engine file, how much hash and EGTB cache to use, and which book. But that system has been abandoned now too, because the modern Polyglot versions can be used without ini file (using the -noini option), passing part of this information on the command line, and another part through the protocol. So Polyglot_1st/2nd.ini are now neither made nor used by WinBoard or Polyglot.

Ok this is good to know the PolyGlot_1st and 2nd.INI files are no longer needed with newer Winboard and Polyglot. Thanks.

When you use /fUCI, Polyglot is thus started without ini file, the engine .exe and folder specified on its command line, while it receives the hash size, EGTB cache size, Nalimov path and max nr of CPUs through protocol commands. All other engine settings will be left at their defaults, and if you don't want that, you will have to change them through the Engine Settings menu dialog. You can have Polyglot save the altered settings on an ini file, though (there is a save button for that in the Engine Settings dialog), and in that case Polyglot will read that ini file next time you run it with that engine again. For this the folder named _PG must exist (because it is where Polyglot tries to make its ini files with data the user lets it save).

This saving of INI files per engine through Winboard is convenient, both for the method I normally use and the /fUCI method. But I've noticed something that bothers me somewhat regarding the saved INI files for engines through Winboard: To begin with, when using /fUCI format, and I view an engine's parameters via Winboard, not all the Polyglot options are shown! Options like BookLearn, BookThreshold, BookFile, MateScore, ScoreWhite, UseNice, etc aren't shown for the user to configure if tweaking is needed. Here's a screen shot of Polyglot options missing when using /fUCI format:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

With the non-f/sUCI format, which is the method I've used comfortably for years, all Polyglot options are visible such that I can change certain settings while online:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

More ever, when INI file is saved with the /fUCI format in the _PG directory, these Polyglot options can't be saved along with it because it wasn't displayed in Winboard. So how can one make Polyglot options display in Winboard while using f/UCI method?

So /fUCI does nothing else than run Houdini with default settings under Polyglot, specifying only hash size, nr of CPUs, EGTB cache and Nalimov path. It seems strange that you can get it in a state where it does not function properly, that way. Usually, to make it disfunction, you would have to send it some option settings that are not compatible with your system. (Like more hash memory than you physially have.) This is difficult when you send it almost nothing, unless the default settings are already incompatible with your system.

My OS has enough memory; 8GB. This hasn't been a problem with the non-f/sUCI format because everything just moves smoothly.

Hence my question: what settings are you running it with in the case where it works, and how do those differ from the settings that are used in the case where it doesn't work?

The settings (of how I configure each engines in Winboard.INI) I posted is what I use. The non-f/sUCI format just works better. The s/fUCI format works although slower, compared to the non-f/sUCI method. My guess for the s/fUCI format being slower would be because there aren't any "saved" INI files for the specific engine in use yet (or for each engines) in the _PG directory.

One more thing, I'm now experimenting with this format (still /fUCI):

Code: Select all

winboard /fcp="Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Notice it has the argument winboard before the /fcp command line. This seem slightly faster in game play than non-winboard /fUCI format such as this:

Code: Select all

"Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Found here: http://www.gnu.org/software/xboard/FAQ.html#tag-D.3

In this regard, how would I incorporate the 'winboard' argument in the main ICS line, as in this line?;

/icsNames={freechess.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=5000 /zp /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI

[H.G.Muller]

This saving of INI files per engine through Winboard is convenient, both for the method I normally use and the /fUCI method. But I've noticed something that bothers me somewhat regarding the saved INI files for engines through Winboard: To begin with, when using /fUCI format, and I view an engine's parameters via Winboard, not all the Polyglot options are shown! Options like BookLearn, BookThreshold, BookFile, MateScore, ScoreWhite, UseNice, etc aren't shown for the user to configure if tweaking is needed.

There are some Polyglot options that are 'blacklisted', because their use would break proper or desired operation of WinBoard. These include for instance the kibitz options, ShowPonder, ScoreWhite, Nice. So these were made not-settable through the protocol.

One thing I do not understand is why you would see them using the non-fUCI method. When I run the Polyglot I included in the WB package (1.4.66b) from the command line, I don't get to see all those options, even when I do run it with an in file. The only explanation I can think of for that you do see them, is that you are actually using a different Polyglot version for the non-fUCI version. The BookLearn option is also shown, but it is absent in 1.4.66b, not because it was blacklisted, but because Michel disabled it for not functioning. I repaired the functioning, but I did not re-enable it as a WB option that could be set through the protocol. (Because I never noticed that Michel disabled it.) It is doubtful it would work as a WB option in the dialog where it is shown, because one of the problems was the order of the options BookFile and BookLearn, and in the dialog they are shown in the wrong order.

The settings (of how I configure each engines in Winboard.INI) I posted is what I use.

You did not post any engine settings. They are in the polyglot.ini file, not in the winboard.ini file. The part of the polyglot.ini file you show in the screenshot above only shows the [Polyglot] section,not the [Engine] section.

The non-f/sUCI format just works better. The s/fUCI format works although slower, compared to the non-f/sUCI method. My guess for the s/fUCI format being slower would be because there aren't any "saved" INI files for the specific engine in use yet (or for each engines) in the _PG directory.

This is something I consider absolutely impossible. You should realize the INI files are not used at all when the engine is running. They are only read by Polyglot at startup of the engine, as a source for obtaining the option settings. Once the settings are obtained, all memory of how they were obtained is lost, and they are just used from Polyglot's memory. So if you have a problem that Polyglot will not start, it could be becauseof a corrupted or misplaced ini file. But if the engine does not run properly, it cannot even be a Polyglot problem. Polyglot is not involved inmaking the engine run well. It just specifies the engine option settings at startup, and after that the engine is basically on its own. The only reason for not running well would be that it was passed unsuitable settings.

One more thing, I'm now experimenting with this format (still /fUCI):

Code: Select all

winboard /fcp="Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Notice it has the argument winboard before the /fcp command line. This seem slightly faster in game play than non-winboard /fUCI format such as this:

Code: Select all

"Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Found here: http://www.gnu.org/software/xboard/FAQ.html#tag-D.3

In this regard, how would I incorporate the 'winboard' argument in the main ICS line, as in this line?;

/icsNames={freechess.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=5000 /zp /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI

[/quote]
This is again something that is totally impossible. 'winboard' is not an option. The way the lines in the /firstChessProgramNames are used as follows:

WinBoard prefixes the selected line with "/cp /fcp=", and then appends it to the comand line. So the line you mention would be interpreted as

Code: Select all

/cp /fcp=winboard /fcp="Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Notice that you have two /fcp options now, each specifying a different engine. WB is resistant to that, though,as it just interprets optionsin the order they are given, and any later occurrence will simply overwrite what an earlier occurrence specified, before it was ever used. So it does not matter if you write 'winboard', or 'bla bla', or "Fruit 2.1" as the first thing on the line, as long as it s followed by another /fcpoption. Because in that case the first word (orquoted string) on the line will be utterly ignored.

[K Inuen]

There are some Polyglot options that are 'blacklisted', because their use would break proper or desired operation of WinBoard. These include for instance the kibitz options, ShowPonder, ScoreWhite, Nice. So these were made not-settable through the protocol.

One thing I do not understand is why you would see them using the non-fUCI method. When I run the Polyglot I included in the WB package (1.4.66b) from the command line, I don't get to see all those options, even when I do run it with an in file.

Oh, I think you may have mistakenly assume I was referring to all Polyglot options being displayed within Polyglot.exe itself (when 'uci' command is typed in Polyglot.exe). No, this is not the case.
But as you've noted, all Polyglot options ( [PolyGlot] )are not displayed within the Polyglot.exe itself when uci command is typed in Polyglot.exe. I was referring to all Polyglot options displayed in Winboard GUI's engine options (for each engines used) when using non-fUCI formats (or arguments). That was why I uploaded screenshots of the Polyglot options displayed when using non-fUCI format versus the fUCI format.

The only explanation I can think of for that you do see them, is that you are actually using a different Polyglot version for the non-fUCI version. The BookLearn option is also shown, but it is absent in 1.4.66b, not because it was blacklisted, but because Michel disabled it for not functioning. I repaired the functioning, but I did not re-enable it as a WB option that could be set through the protocol. (Because I never noticed that Michel disabled it.) It is doubtful it would work as a WB option in the dialog where it is shown, because one of the problems was the order of the options BookFile and BookLearn, and in the dialog they are shown in the wrong order.

Truly, I'm using Polyglot 1.4.66b (your version). I can safely assume that even if Michel's equivalent version is used, the same observations would persist in which non-fUCI arguments in Winboard.INI would cause all designated Polyglot options specified within an engine's.INI to be displayed in Winboard GUI's engine parameters. Comparatively, /fUCI arguments would not display all Polyglot options.

However, in both formats or arguments used, engine options are displayed and allow a user to change engine settings while in ICS mode.

This is something I consider absolutely impossible. You should realize the INI files are not used at all when the engine is running. They are only read by Polyglot at startup of the engine, as a source for obtaining the option settings. Once the settings are obtained, all memory of how they were obtained is lost, and they are just used from Polyglot's memory. So if you have a problem that Polyglot will not start, it could be becauseof a corrupted or misplaced ini file. But if the engine does not run properly, it cannot even be a Polyglot problem. Polyglot is not involved inmaking the engine run well. It just specifies the engine option settings at startup, and after that the engine is basically on its own. The only reason for not running well would be that it was passed unsuitable settings.

For the non-fUCI argument with same 2 engines used in engine-engine match, Polyglot runs smoothly; no delays or engines using more time. With fUCI argument and with the same 2 engines used in engine-engine games, there is usually a slight delay (and yes books are used in both cases). Also there may be instances where one engine uses more time, and even falls in the -(negative) time zone, in fUCI format. I'll keep investigating this.

WinBoard prefixes the selected line with "/cp /fcp=", and then appends it to the comand line. So the line you mention would be interpreted as

Code: Select all

/cp /fcp=winboard /fcp="Critter_1.20_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Critter64" /fUCI

Notice that you have two /fcp options now, each specifying a different engine. WB is resistant to that, though,as it just interprets optionsin the order they are given, and any later occurrence will simply overwrite what an earlier occurrence specified, before it was ever used. So it does not matter if you write 'winboard', or 'bla bla', or "Fruit 2.1" as the first thing on the line, as long as it s followed by another /fcpoption. Because in that case the first word (orquoted string) on the line will be utterly ignored.

Thank you H.G.Muller. I just learned something new because from the link where I got the 'winboard' argument (found at the bottom of the page), it just specified the 'winboard' format I posted in my previous inquiries. I guess they assume everyone are programmers like them and not offer details ?

Ok, for the ICS line I have modified my fUCI format accordingly as you suggested. Just to be on the safe side, when applying it to my ICS line command, should it look like this? :
/icsNames={site.net /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI


And for multiple engine lists, would be something like this? :

/icsNames={site.net /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan_12.3_smp_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bobcat_20110220_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright_0.5c_smp.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Critter_1.2_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI


OR, should I include the / (as in /cp) as well, so that it would look like this? ;

/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan_12.3_smp_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bobcat_20110220_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright_0.5c_smp.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Critter_1.2_64bit.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI

Thank you in advance.

[H.G.Muller]

OK, I solved part of the mystery by looking in the Polyglot sources.

Ther is an option OnlyWbOptions, which by defaultis set to true, and causes Polyglot to only print the non-blacklisted options in response to 'protover 2'. This is the set of options you see in the dialog when Polyglot is invoked through /fUCI. When you invoke Polyglot with an ini file,you wouldsee exactly the same, UNLESS that ini file contains the setting (in the [Polyglot] section) "OnlyWbOptions = false". Then the blacklisted options are also printed in response to 'protover 2' (which is the WB equivalentt of 'uci').

I think you could achieve the same by including "-pg OnlyWbOptions=false" in the /adapterCommand in the winboard.ini file. Then the dialog should even contain the blacklisted options.

[K Inuen]

Thanks H.G.Muller. Adding "-pg OnlyWbOptions=false" in the /adapterCommand line in Winboard.ini file did it. Now with the /fUCI argument, all Polyglot options are now visible in Winboard GUI engine parameter panel.

But I'm still lost with the /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe line you suggested to me. I added this to my main /icsNames command line, resulting in this:
/icsNames={site.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI

Is this ok to add to the /icsNames line?

Subsequently with your suggestion, which format is better for /firstChessProgramNames & engine dialog?

Method A (with the /cp in engine dialog)

Code: Select all

/icsNames={site.org /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
}
/singleEngineList=true
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-11.7-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.0-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.1-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.2-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.3-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bobcat_20110220_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.1d-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.2c-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.3a-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.4a3-960-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.4-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.5c-960-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.5c-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2a-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2bWinXP-Fix-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2b-Fix-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2-PP-x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2WinXP-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-DC-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-PGO-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
/cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-QipoO3PGO-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI

OR Method B (withou the /cp in engine dialog):

Code: Select all

/icsNames={pogo /ics /icshost=127.0.0.1 /icsport=6000 /zp /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
}
/firstChessProgramNames={"Houdini 1.5a x64" /cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Houdini_1.5a_x64.Exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Houdini64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-11.7-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.0-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.1-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.2-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Arasan-12.3-SMP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Arasan64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bobcat_20110220_x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bobcat64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.1d-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.2c-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.3a-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.4a3-960-SMP-Fix.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.4-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.5c-960-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Bright-0.5c-SMP.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\Bright" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2a-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2bWinXP-Fix-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2b-Fix-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="ComStock-1.0.2WinXP-PP-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-DC-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-PGO-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI
cp /fcp=Winboard /fcp="Crab-1.0Beta-QipoO3PGO-x64.exe" /fd="C:\PolyGlot64\StockFish64" /fUCI

I'm still new to this /fUCI format and need help on this. This is quite different to the 'alternative format' I'm used to. Thanks for any info on this.