False draw claim

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False draw claim

Postby Gábor Szots » 27 Sep 2013, 17:57

Hi HG,

Just played this game under WB:

[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "LUCIFER"]
[Date "2013.09.27"]
[Round "92"]
[White "Myrddin 0.86 64-bit"]
[Black "EveAnn 1.71a"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "40/155"]
[Annotator "9. +0.37 9... -0.13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. e5 Qe7 7. Qe2
Nd5 8. c4 Nb6 9. Nc3 {+0.37/13 5} d5 {-0.13/11 9} 10. exd6 {+0.25/14 6}
cxd6 {-0.07/13 5} 11. Be3 {+0.25/13 5} Be6 {-0.10/11 5} 12. Qf3
{+0.05/13 9} Qb7 {+0.06/11 5} 13. b3 {+0.11/12 5} O-O-O {-0.01/10 2.4} 14.
Rc1 {+0.83/11 5} Nd7 {-0.06/11 2.6} 15. Qg3 {+0.97/13 5} h5 {+0.23/11 2.9}
16. Be2 {+0.98/12 5} h4 {+0.49/12 7} 17. Qf4 {+0.80/13 5} h3 {+0.48/11 3}
18. gxh3 {+1.01/11 5} Rxh3 {+0.67/10 5} 19. Ne4 {+0.73/12 5} Ne5
{+0.46/9 5} 20. Ng5 {+0.70/12 5} Ng6 {+0.63/11 2.9} 21. Qe4 {+1.09/13 5}
Rh4 {+0.42/12 6} 22. Qf3 {+0.79/12 5} Re8 {+0.25/10 5} 23. Nxe6
{+0.54/11 5} Rxe6 {+0.38/11 2.7} 24. Qg3 {+0.68/11 5} Qd7 {+0.43/10 5} 25.
Rd1 {+0.70/10 4} Re5 {+0.43/10 3} 26. h3 {+0.88/12 10} Be7 {+0.35/10 5} 27.
f4 {+0.75/12 11} Re4 {+0.91/10 2.1} 28. Bd3 {+0.49/12 4} Rxe3+ {+0.43/11 8}
29. Qxe3 {+0.31/13 4} Nxf4 {+0.61/11 5} 30. Qf3 {+0.03/11 7} Kb7
{+0.90/9 3} 31. Kd2 {+0.15/10 5} d5 {+0.94/9 2.8} 32. cxd5 {+0.14/11 3}
cxd5 {+0.60/10 5} 33. Rdg1 {+0.06/11 4} g5 {+0.91/9 3} 34. Rg3
{+0.13/10 2.9} Qc7 {+0.96/9 2.5} 35. Qe3 {-0.10/10 4} Ne6 {+0.89/9 2.9} 36.
Qf3 {-0.17/10 4} Bb4+ {+1.55/9 6} 37. Kd1 {-0.92/12 2.3} Rd4 {+1.34/11 6}
38. Qf2 {-1.04/12 2.3} f5 {+1.66/11 4} 39. Rf3 {-1.18/11 2.3} Qc3
{+1.46/11 2.4} 40. Qc2 {-1.17/13 1.1} Qa1+ {+2.17/11 1.5} 41. Qc1
{-1.26/15 4} Qxa2 {+2.29/12 2.5} 42. Qc2 {-1.33/14 4} Qa3 {+2.11/11 5} 43.
Rg1 {-1.31/13 4} Nf4 {+2.46/11 5} 44. Rxf4 {-1.60/13 4} Qa1+ {+2.27/11 4}
45. Ke2 {-1.60/14 4} Qxg1 {+2.27/10 0.1} 46. Rxd4 {-1.57/14 4} Qxd4
{+1.94/10 3} 47. Bxf5 {-1.56/13 4} Bc5 {+1.84/11 5} 48. Qd3 {-1.52/13 4}
Qe5+ {+1.80/10 2.7} 49. Kd2 {-1.52/13 4} a6 {+1.74/10 2.4} 50. Bg4
{-1.38/11 4} Qb2+ {+1.60/9 5} 51. Kd1 {-1.41/15 4} Qd4 {+1.61/12 2.7} 52.
Kc2 {-1.49/14 4} Qxd3+ {+1.78/16 5} 53. Kxd3 {-1.41/20 4} Kc6
{+1.78/18 2.2} 54. Ke2 {-1.37/20 4} Kd6 {+1.78/18 3} 55. Bc8 {-1.37/21 4}
a5 {+1.80/13 0.1} 56. Kf3 {-1.37/22 4} Ke5 {+1.79/18 5} 57. Kg4
{-1.37/22 4} Be7 {+1.79/18 4} 58. Bb7 {-1.33/21 4} Ke4 {+1.80/19 4} 59. Bc6
{-1.33/23 4} Bf6 {+1.80/20 3} 60. Bb7 {-1.33/24 4} Bd8 {+1.78/18 4} 61. Bc6
{-1.33/22 4} Ke5 {+1.78/20 4} 62. Bb7 {-1.33/23 4} Be7 {+1.78/18 5} 63. Bc8
{-1.33/21 4} Ke4 {+1.78/18 2.2} 64. Bb7 {-0.29/20 4} Bf6 {+1.78/21 2.7} 65.
Bc6 {-1.33/23 4} Ke5 {+1.79/17 2.6} 66. Bb7 {-1.33/23 4} Bd8 {+1.78/19 5}
67. Ba6 {-1.33/22 4} Kf6 {+1.72/18 4} 68. Bb7 {-1.33/23 4} d4 {+1.72/18 6}
69. Kf3 {-1.33/23 4} Ke5 {+1.71/17 2.9} 70. Ke2 {-1.33/23 4} Kf4
{+1.74/18 6} 71. Kd3 {-1.29/20 4} Bb6 {+1.73/17 2.3} 72. Bc6 {-1.29/21 4}
Ke5 {+1.75/20 4} 73. Kc4 {-1.29/22 4} Bc7 {+1.75/20 4} 74. Bb7 {-1.29/22 4}
Bd6 {+1.73/20 5} 75. Kd3 {-1.29/23 4} Bc5 {+1.73/19 3} 76. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4}
Bb4 {+1.73/19 7} 77. Bg4 {-1.29/23 4} Ba3 {+1.73/20 7} 78. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4}
Bc5 {+1.74/19 7} 79. Be4 {-1.29/22 4} Bb6 {+1.74/19 2.3} 80. Bb7
{-1.22/21 1.9} Ba7 {+1.73/17 9} 81. Bf3 {-1.10/22 4} Bb8 {+1.73/20 3} 82.
Be4 {-1.29/22 4} Bc7 {+1.73/21 2.6} 83. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4} Bd8 {+1.73/20 5}
84. Be4 {-1.29/23 4} Be7 {+1.73/23 4} 85. Bf3 {-1.29/24 4} Bf8 {+1.73/20 3}
86. Be4 {-1.29/24 4} Bg7 {+1.73/19 5} 87. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4} Bf6
{+1.72/18 2.0} 88. Bb7 {-1.29/23 4} Kf4 {+1.72/20 4} 89. Bd5 {-1.29/23 4}
Bg7 {+1.72/18 3} 90. Be4 {-1.29/23 4} Bh8 {+1.72/20 3} 91. Bd5 {-1.29/24 4}
Bf6 {+1.72/17 2.1} 92. Bb7 {-1.29/22 4} Ke5 {+1.72/21 4} 93. Bf3
{-1.29/21 4} Bg7 {+1.72/19 2.2} 94. Be4 {-1.29/23 4} Bf8 {+1.72/21 5} 95.
Bf3 {-1.14/22 4} Ba3 {+1.69/17 2.4} 96. Be4 {-1.29/22 4} Bb2 {+1.69/19 2.7}
97. Bc6 {-1.29/23 4} Bc3 {+1.69/21 4} 98. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4} Be1 {+1.70/19 3}
99. Be4 {-1.29/23 4} Bd2 {+1.69/18 2.0} 100. Bb7 {-1.29/22 4} Bf4
{+1.70/19 2.9} 101. Bf3 {-1.29/24 4} Be3 {+1.69/20 4} 102. Kc4 {-1.29/23 4}
Kf4 {+1.69/19 4} 103. Bd5 {-1.29/22 4} Kf5 {+1.69/18 2.4} 104. Bf3
{-1.29/22 4} Bf2 {+1.69/19 4} 105. Bd5 {-1.29/21 4} Kf4 {+1.69/18 3} 106.
Kd3 {-1.29/22 4} Ke5 {+1.69/20 3} 107. Bf3 {-1.29/23 4} Bg3 {+1.70/20 1.8}
108. Be4 {-1.29/24 4} Be1 {+1.69/20 2.5} 109. Bb7 {-1.29/21 4} Bh4
{+1.69/20 5} 110. Be4 {-0.32/23 4} Bg3 {+1.64/19 6} 111. Bf3 {-1.29/22 4}
Bf4 {+1.63/18 6} 112. Kc4 {-1.29/23 4} Bc1 {+1.59/16 5} 113. Bc6
{-1.29/21 4} Ba3 {+1.58/17 6} 114. Kd3 {-0.32/21 4} Bb2 {+1.58/18 5} 115.
Kd2 {-0.32/20 4} Kf4 {+1.52/15 4} 116. Bd7 {-0.18/21 4} Ba3 {+1.37/18 4}
117. Kd3 {+0.00/22 4} Bb4 {+0.09/16 4} 118. Kxd4 {+0.00/24 4} Ba3
{+0.09/20 6} 119. Kd3 {+0.00/24 4} Ke5 {+0.09/20 5} 120. Kc4 {+0.00/21 2.0}
Bb2 {+0.09/18 10} 121. Bc6 {+0.00/23 4} Kf4 {+0.08/18 3} 122. b4
{+0.00/24 4} axb4 {+0.09/18 2.4} 123. Kxb4 {+0.00/27 4} Bd4 {+0.05/18 2.1}
124. Bd5 {+0.00/25 4} Kf5 {+0.09/18 2.4} 125. Kb5 {+0.00/28 4} Ke5
{+0.05/19 1.8} 126. Kc4 {+0.00/30 4} Bb6 {+0.05/21 5} 127. Bc6 {+0.00/28 4}
Be3 {+0.03/20 3} 128. Bf3 {+0.00/29 4} Ba7 {+0.03/24 3} 129. Bd5
{+0.00/28 4} Kd6 {+0.06/16 2.3} 130. Be4 {+0.00/28 4} Ke6 {+0.03/23 4} 131.
Kb5 {+0.00/26 4} Ke5 {+0.08/21 2.6} 132. Bf3 {+0.00/31 4} Kd4 {+0.09/21 4}
133. h4 {+0.00/28 4} gxh4 {+2.11/12 0.1} 134. Bg4 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bb8
{+2.04/19 3} 135. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} h3 {+2.38/21 3} 136. Bg4
{+0.00/129 0.1} h2 {+2.40/12 0.1} 137. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bd6 {+2.38/22 4}
138. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bf4 {+2.38/20 3} 139. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.2} Be5
{+2.38/23 4} 140. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bf6 {+2.38/22 6} 141. Bd5
{+0.00/129 0.1} Be7 {+2.38/26 5} 142. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bb4 {+2.38/24 4}
143. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.2} Ke5 {+2.38/18 1.9} 144. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bf8
{+2.38/22 2.8} 145. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.2} Be7 {+2.38/25 6} 146. Bf3
{+0.00/129 0.1} Bg5 {+2.38/20 2.3} 147. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.2} Be3
{+2.38/26 4} 148. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bf2 {+2.37/22 5} 149. Bd5
{+0.00/129 0.1} Bd4 {+2.37/25 4} 150. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.2} Be3 {+2.37/25 4}
151. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bb6 {+2.37/26 6} 152. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.2} Ba7
{+2.38/22 3} 153. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bf2 {+2.37/25 5} 154. Bf3
{+0.00/129 0.2} Kf4 {+2.37/26 5} 155. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bd4 {+2.38/24 3}
156. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bb2 {+2.38/24 5} 157. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bc3
{+2.38/25 7} 158. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Be5 {+2.37/26 7} 159. Kc6
{+0.00/129 0.2} Bb2 {+2.38/24 4} 160. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.2} Ke5 {+2.38/27 6}
161. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.1} Ba3 {+2.38/26 4} 162. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bb4
{+2.37/23 1.9} 163. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bc5 {+2.37/24 5} 164. Kc6
{+0.00/129 0.1} Bd4 {+2.37/24 2.2} 165. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bc3
{+2.38/24 2.0} 166. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.1} Kf4 {+2.37/26 3} 167. Bd5
{+0.00/129 0.1} Ke3 {+2.38/19 2.1} 168. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Be5
{+2.38/22 2.8} 169. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.2} Kd3 {+2.38/21 2.5} 170. Kd7
{+0.00/129 0.1} Bd4 {+2.37/22 3} 171. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bb2
{+2.38/22 2.5} 172. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.2} Be5 {+2.38/21 3} 173. Kc6
{+0.00/129 0.3} Ke3 {+2.38/24 3} 174. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.2} Bf4 {+2.38/24 4}
175. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.2} Kd4 {+2.37/24 3} 176. Bf3 {+0.00/129 0.1} Be5
{+2.37/22 5} 177. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bg7 {+2.37/20 2.3} 178. Kc6
{+0.00/129 0.2} Ke3 {+2.37/18 5} 179. Bd5 {+0.00/129 0.1} Bf6
{+2.37/15 1.6} 180. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.2} Ba1 {+2.37/14 6} 181. Kc6
{+0.00/129 0.2} Kf4 {+2.37/12 2.8} 182. Kd7 {+0.00/129 0.1} Kg4
{+2.37/10 6} 183. Kc6 {+0.00/129 0.2} h1=Q {+2.00/9 6} 184. Bxh1
{+0.00/129 0.2}
{False draw claim: 'Draw by Insufficient Material'} 0-1

Of course the claim is false, yes. However, I remember WB adjudicate a KBKB endgame with opposite colour bishops as 'trivial draw'. I guess that would have happened if in the above game Myrddin had played a move instead of claiming a draw.
However, I don't think this is a correct procedure. What if the other engine had also claimed a draw? It couldn't because the game was terminated.
If WB declares a trivial draw it prevents the engine on move to make an false claim. In my view WB ought to wait till both engines have made a move, and only after that should it declare trivial draw.
Gábor Szőts

CCRL testing group
User avatar
Gábor Szots
 
Posts: 327
Joined: 26 Sep 2004, 21:26
Location: Szentendre, Hungary

Re: False draw claim

Postby H.G.Muller » 30 Sep 2013, 17:40

But WinBoard does wait 1 move before it declares a trivial draw in KBKN etc. (or 3 moves in KRKR). This because such end-games do contain mate positions, and thus mate-in-1 positions. And WinBoard, not being an engine, can barely detect mate, but not mate-in-1. So it gives the engines the chance to play out the mate-in-1, if that was what they were playing for, and then it declares the draw.

And yes, the player making the first violation will lose. That is Chess. I am not sure how it could be any different.

The false-claim feature is mainly for easy detection of engines that make frivolous claims. It should not be taken as gospel for the purpose of deciding tourney results when actually using such engines.
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H.G.Muller
 
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Re: False draw claim

Postby Gábor Szots » 30 Sep 2013, 19:33

OK, thanks. I accept your arguments.
Gábor Szőts

CCRL testing group
User avatar
Gábor Szots
 
Posts: 327
Joined: 26 Sep 2004, 21:26
Location: Szentendre, Hungary


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