How to identify Zugzwang positions?

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi all,

I just have eliminated a Zugzwang handling problem in Smirf Beta BC-060. But it has been done not very performant. It would be better to become able to cheaply identify Zugzwang positions. Any idea?

Regards, Reinhard.

[Daniel Shawul]

Hi Reinhard
To detect zugzwangs you can do research for the side that null moved.
This is not cheap at all if you use it everywhere. Also double null move may avoid some zugzwang positions.
daniel
p.s: does smirf uses null move?

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

does smirf uses null move?

Hi Daniel,

since some released 05X betas Smirf does a restricted use of nullmove pruning. Today I have detected that this would not yet avoid zugzwang positions as I had thought. Thus I have made a correction, which should handle this. But I am still searching for more a performant characteristic of nodes whether they represent a zugzwang position or not.

Reinhard.

[Pedro Castro]

Hi,

Here, you have positions where you can verify the correct operation of the null move.

mate in 5 or 4 nonmemory (hard)
8/3p1p2/5Ppp/K2R2bk/4pPrr/6Pp/4B2P/3N4 w - - 0 1

no mate, best Kh6
1q1k4/2Rr4/8/2Q3K1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

mate in 2
8/8/6Q1/8/8/7k/3p1pp1/3Kbrrb w - - 0 1

mate in 5
8/1K1R4/1p6/1N6/kPB5/P7/3P4/8 w - - 0 1

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Pedro,

here are the results of Smirf BC-060 on Intel P4 2.8 GHz:

[diag]8/3p1p2/5Ppp/K2R2bk/4pPrr/6Pp/4B2P/3N4 w - - 0 1[/diag]
8/3p1p2/5Ppp/K2R2bk/4pPrr/6Pp/4B2P/3N4 w - - 0 1

00:00.3 (06.02=) +M~??? 1.Nc3 (Ne3) d6 2.Bd1 e3 3.Ne2
00:00.1 (05.01=) +7.420 1.Ne3 (Nc3) d6 2.fxg5 hxg5 3.gxh4 Kxh4 4.Nxg4 e3 5.Nxe3 g4 6.Nxg4 g5 7.Rxd6 Kh5 8.Nh6+
00:00.0 (01.01=) +0.189 1.gxh4 (=/=) d6

[diag]1q1k4/2Rr4/8/2Q3K1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1[/diag]
1q1k4/2Rr4/8/2Q3K1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

00:22.8 (12.01=) +3.895 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kh7 Rd6 5.Qb5+ Kc7 6.Qc5+ Rc6 7.Qd5 Rd6 8.Qe5 Kc6
00:09.6 (11.01=) +3.857 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kh5 Rc5+ 5.Kg6 Ke7 6.Qb6 Rd5 7.Qf6+ Ke8 8.Qf7+ Kd8
00:09.4 (11.01+) +3.857 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kh5 Rc5+ 5.Kg6 Ke7 6.Qb6 Rd5 7.Qf6+ Ke8 8.Qf7+ Kd8
00:04.9 (10.01=) +3.784 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kh5 Rc5+ 5.Kh6 Rc6+ 6.Kh5 Rc5+ 7.Kh6 Rc6+ 8.Kh5 Rc5+
00:02.7 (09.01=) +3.784 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rd6 5.Qb7+ Kd8 6.Kh8 Rg6 7.Qf7 Rg8+
00:01.8 (08.01=) +3.763 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Qa8 2.Qf8+ Kxc7 3.Qxa8 Rd6+ 4.Kg5 Kd7 5.Qb7+ Ke8 6.Qc7 Rd5+ 7.Kh4 Rg5
00:01.4 (08.01+) +2.853 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+ Ke7 5.Qxc7+ Kf6 6.Qf7+
00:00.7 (07.01=) +0.567 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+ Ke7 5.Qxc7+ Kf6 6.Qf7+
00:00.4 (07.01-) +0.714 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+ Ke7 5.Qxc7+ Kf6 6.Qf7+
00:00.2 (06.03=) +0.714 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+ Ke7 5.Qxc7+ Kf6 6.Qf7+
00:00.2 (06.03+) +0.566 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+ Ke7 5.Qxc7+ Kf6 6.Qf7+
00:00.1 (05.01-) +1.185 1.Kh6 (Kh4) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+
00:00.0 (05.01-) +1.185 1.Kh6 (Kh4) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Kd6 4.Qb6+

[diag]8/8/6Q1/8/8/7k/3p1pp1/3Kbrrb w - - 0 1[/diag]
8/8/6Q1/8/8/7k/3p1pp1/3Kbrrb w - - 0 1

00:00.0 (01.11=) +M~002 1.Qg5 (=/=) Kh2 2.Qh4#

[diag]8/1K1R4/1p6/1N6/kPB5/P7/3P4/8 w - - 0 1[/diag]
8/1K1R4/1p6/1N6/kPB5/P7/3P4/8 w - - 0 1

00:00.3 (07.22=) +M~005 1.Bd5 (Bd3) Kxb5 2.Rd8 Ka4 3.Ra8+ Kb5 4.Ka7 Ka4 5.Kxb6#
00:00.2 (07.01+) +18.92 1.Bd3 (=/=) Kb3 2.Kxb6 Kb2 3.a4 Kc1 4.Be4 Kd1 5.Nc3+ Kc1
00:00.1 (06.01=) +18.85 1.Bd3 (=/=) Kb3 2.Kxb6 Kb2 3.a4 Kc1 4.Be4 Kd1 5.Nc3+ Kc1
00:00.0 (04.01+) +18.71 1.Bd3 (=/=) Kb3 2.Kxb6 Ka2 3.Kc6 Kb3

Regards, Reinhard.

[Pedro Castro]

Hi Reinhard,

The first solution does not find many engines of low-middle quality, among them mine, I it find but making much more slow null move.

I have one more interesting position, is mate in 8, not if it is related to the null move, but many engines, Shredder and others they cannot find, in changes chessmaster 10 it finds in a second.


FEN: r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1

[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/diag]

DanaSah v.1.5:
1 00:00 79 79 +1,63 exf6 Dxa2
2 00:00 464 464 +1,63 exf6 Dxa2
3 00:00 4.317 431.700 +1,81 b4
3 00:00 6.364 318.200 +2,42 exf6 Dxa2 Dg5+ Rh8 Dxh5
4 00:00 21.448 428.960 +2,42 exf6 Dxa2 Dg5+ Rh8 Dxh5
5 00:00 73.219 522.992 +2,57 b4
5 00:00 88.612 521.247 +2,70 b4 Te8 exf6 Te5 Af4
6 00:00 187.815 552.397 +2,85 exf6 Te8 Ag4 Dg5+ Rh8 Ag7+ Rg8
6 00:00 218.223 545.557 +2,93 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Ag4 Ag7+ Rg8 Ah6+ Rh8
7 00:00 323.455 557.681 +3,08 exf6
7 00:00 354.605 562.865 +4,55 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Dxa2 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
8 00:00 509.372 606.395 +4,40 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Dxa2 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
8 00:00 572.420 596.270 +4,70 exf6
8 00:00 670.372 588.045 +5,66 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Dxa2 Ag7+ Rg8 Ah6+ Rh8 Dxh5
9 00:01 1.267.866 643.586 +5,81 exf6
9 00:02 1.733.559 608.266 +7,31 exf6
9 00:03 1.921.744 602.427 +7,79 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Dxa2 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
10 00:03 2.494.082 647.813 +7,64 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Dxa2 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
10 00:04 2.821.100 629.709 +7,94 exf6
10 00:06 3.792.371 608.727 +9,44 exf6
10 00:07 4.411.387 609.307 +13,42 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Tg8 Ag7+ Tgxg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Txf7 Db5
11 00:08 5.366.759 651.305 +13,27 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Tg8 Ag7+ Tgxg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Txf7 Db5
11 00:09 6.245.897 675.962 +11,77 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Tg8 Ag7+ Tgxg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Txf7 Db5
11 00:09 6.577.102 658.368 +13,57 exf6
11 00:11 7.540.018 642.250 +15,07 exf6
11 00:13 8.893.550 646.803 +16,77 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Da3 bxa3 c5 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
12 00:15 10.446.448 673.964 +16,62 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Da3 bxa3 c5 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
12 00:17 11.998.252 705.779 +15,12 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Da3 bxa3 c5 Dg7+ Txg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Tf8+ Txf8 gxf8D+
12 00:18 12.395.245 688.624 +16,92 exf6
12 00:20 13.502.344 675.117 +18,42 exf6
12 00:24 15.886.782 661.673 +M8 exf6 Rh8 Dg5 Af5 Txf5 Tg8 Ag7+ Tgxg7 fxg7+ Rg8 Txf7 h6 Tf8+ Rh7 g8D+

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Pedro,

Smirf is not (yet) optimized for to find shortest mates. Nevertheless it could solve the problem but with a different longer solution. Are you sure that the problem is a mate in 8 moves? (Smirf's PV is limited in length.)

[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2P1B/3p3p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 b - - 0 1[/diag]
r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2P1B/3p3p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 b - - 0 1

05:55.6 End of thinking (mate found)
05:55.5 (13.01=) +M~009 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:55.3 (13.01+) +101.6 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:55.1 (13.01+) +63.84 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:54.9 (13.01+) +44.96 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:54.6 (13.01+) +35.53 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:54.4 (13.01+) +30.81 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:53.9 (13.01+) +28.45 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:53.0 (13.01+) +27.27 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:47.5 (13.01+) +26.68 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:46.4 (13.01+) +26.38 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
05:45.8 (13.01+) +26.24 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
02:37.0 (12.01=) +26.16 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
02:33.2 (12.01+) +26.16 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
01:25.3 (11.01=) +26.09 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Raf8 5.Bxf8 Kg8 6.Qg5+ Kxf8 7.Qh6+ Kg8 8.Re8+ Rf8
01:23.8 (11.01+) +26.09 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:18.6 (11.01+) +16.65 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:12.8 (11.01+) +11.93 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:11.6 (11.01+) +9.574 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:11.3 (11.01+) +8.395 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:11.0 (11.01+) +7.805 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:10.8 (11.01+) +7.510 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
01:10.5 (11.01+) +7.362 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:43.1 (10.01=) +7.289 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:42.9 (10.00-) +7.289 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:25.0 (10.01-) +7.436 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:17.1 (09.01=) +7.436 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:15.2 (09.01+) +7.436 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:13.3 (09.01+) +5.076 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:13.0 (09.01+) +3.896 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:12.3 (09.01+) +3.307 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:11.7 (09.01+) +3.012 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:11.4 (09.01+) +2.864 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:11.1 (08.02=) +2.791 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Bg7+ Kg8 3.Qxd5 cxd5 4.Rf5 Qc4 5.Rxh5
00:10.8 (08.01=) +2.790 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.f7+ Bxf7 6.Qxb7 Qxb7 7.f4
00:10.5 (08.00-) +2.790 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.f7+ Bxf7 6.Qxb7
00:01.7 (08.01-) +2.937 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.f7+ Bxf7 6.Qxb7
00:01.0 (07.01=) +2.937 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.f7+ Kxf7 6.Qxb7+ Qxb7 7.f4
00:00.5 (06.01=) +2.863 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Bg6 4.Qe7 b6 5.Qg7#
00:00.5 (06.01+) +2.863 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Be6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qg7+ Ke8 5.Qe7#
00:00.3 (05.01=) +2.643 1.Rxf6 (exf6) Rxf6 2.exf6 Be6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qg7+ Ke8 5.Qe7#
00:00.2 (04.03=) +2.422 1.Rxf6 (exf6) Re7 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 Qa5 4.b4
00:00.0 (03.01=) +1.465 1.exf6 (b4) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 b5
00:00.0 (02.01=) +1.465 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 b5

Regards, Reinhard.

[F.Huber]

Hello Reinhard,

Are you sure that the problem is a mate in 8 moves?
[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2P1B/3p3p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 b - - 0 1[/diag]
r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2P1B/3p3p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 b - - 0 1

yes, according to ChestUCI it?s indeed a mate in 8:

r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - bm #8; 01:05 @ C2/R5/K2/P9/X33;

Regards,
Franz.

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Franz,

yes, according to ChestUCI it?s indeed a mate in 8:

thank you for clearing that.

It has been a long time since our last posting exchange. During that time I have tried to improve my integrative 10x8 / 8x8 Smirf computer chess approach. But still it has not been sufficient to reach the air, the world champions are breathing. I still need the golden key to push up Smirf's playing strength. But nevertheless it gets stronger a little bit from one beta to the other. And I am happy to have a working 8x8 / 10x8 GUI at hands now.

Reinhard.

[F.Huber]

Hello Reinhard,

It has been a long time since our last posting exchange.

well, there have been some differences in opinion about a few things related to computer chess between us in the past, but nothing really serious.

During that time I have tried to improve my integrative 10x8 / 8x8 Smirf computer chess approach.

No need to tell me about it - I?m regularly visiting your homepage looking for (and downloading) your newest SMIRF-Beta!

But still it has not been sufficient to reach the air, the world champions are breathing. I still need the golden key to push up Smirf's playing strength. But nevertheless it gets stronger a little bit from one beta to the other. And I am happy to have a working 8x8 / 10x8 GUI at hands now.

Playing strength isn?t really a big concern for me, since it?s more than strong enough for chess players like me. What I really like is the nice GUI and the capability for FRC and other chess variants. The only problem is, that I can?t use it here on my notebook, on which I?m working most of the time - there seem to be some incompatibilities between the Delphi graphic routines and my graphic card: the bitmaps of the chess pieces and the board are not displayed properly, so I can?t even identify the different kinds of pieces! But at least on my faster desktop it?s working without problems.
(There are also a few other programs (e.g. RDChess) showing the same display errors on my notebook (but not on my faster desktop), and all seem to be written in Delphi ...)

So keep up the good work with your SMIRF project - there?s at least one thing we have in common: we?re both outsiders working away from the mainstream in chess - you with your FRC and I with matesolving.

Best regards,
Franz.

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Franz,

... but nothing really serious.

that is good to read, I have had some sorrows ...

I?m regularly visiting your homepage ...

I have installed a separate download page http://de.geocities.com/rsmuenchen/, the http://www.chessbox.de site has not been updated during the last time. Until now there has not been anything reported on problems concerning its installation.

... there seem to be some incompatibilities between the Delphi graphic routines and my graphic card.

I am sorry to read this. It is the first time this has been reported to me. I will try to get information about that. By the way: I am not using Delphi but Borland C++ Builder 6. Nevertheless their run time libraries seem to be very similar.

we?re both outsiders ...

In my point of view we have been put outside, it is not my nature to stay out. That is when not being driven by the mainstream but swimming yourself ...

Reinhard.

[Pedro Castro]

Good, Franz already has answered mate in 8, single commenting that Dann Corbit did a good work analyzing this position with many engines in CCC the forum, although I not like locating that information.

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Pedro,

I have made some smaller changes in Smirf's intelligence feed back part:

[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1

mate in 8

01:11.0 End of thinking (mate found)
01:10.9 (15.01=) +M~008 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.bxa3 Re8 7.Rf8+ Rxf8 8.gxf8=Q#
01:10.9 (15.01+) +91.01 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.bxa3 Re8 7.Rf8+ Rxf8 8.gxf8=Q#
01:10.8 (15.01+) +34.38 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.bxa3 Re8 7.Rf8+ Rxf8 8.gxf8=Q#
01:10.4 (15.01+) +24.94 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
01:02.9 (15.01+) +20.23 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
00:59.5 (15.01+) +17.87 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
00:57.3 (15.01+) +16.69 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
00:56.7 (15.01+) +16.10 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
00:56.2 (15.01+) +15.80 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Bg7+ Rgxg7 6.fxg7+ Rxg7 7.Rf8+ Rg8 8.Qf6#
00:55.7 (15.01+) +15.65 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Qxh5 Rg6 6.Bg7+ Kg8 7.e4 b5
00:37.4 (14.01=) +15.58 1.exf6 (=/=) Kh8 2.Qg5 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Qa3 4.bxa3 Rg8 5.Qxh5 Rg6 6.Bg7+ Kg8 7.e4 b5
00:34.6 (14.01+) +14.57 1.exf6 (=/=) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.bxa3 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:33.8 (14.01+) +13.39 1.exf6 (=/=) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.bxa3 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:33.7 (14.01+) +12.80 1.exf6 (=/=) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.bxa3 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:33.3 (14.01+) +12.50 1.exf6 (=/=) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.bxa3 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Rf8+ Rg8 7.Qf6#
00:33.0 (14.01+) +12.36 1.exf6 (=/=) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Bg7+ Kg8 4.Rxa3 Bg4 5.f3 Be6 6.Qxh5 c5 7.e4 Rxg7 8.fxg7 dxe4
00:21.7 (13.01=) +12.28 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Qa3 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Bg7+ Kg8 4.Rxa3 Bg4 5.f3 Be6 6.Re3 Re8 7.Qxh5 d4
00:18.1 (13.01+) +11.55 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:16.9 (13.01+) +9.190 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:16.3 (13.01+) +8.011 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:16.2 (13.01+) +7.421 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:16.0 (13.01+) +7.126 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:16.0 (13.01+) +6.979 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:12.2 (12.02=) +6.905 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Rxh5 Rg8 4.Bg7+ Rgxg7 5.fxg7+ Rxg7 6.Ra1 Qd3
00:10.9 (12.02+) +6.486 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:10.0 (12.02+) +5.307 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:10.0 (12.02+) +4.422 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Kh8 2.Qg5 Qa5 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:09.7 (12.01=) +4.421 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Ke6 5.Qe7+ Kf5 6.e4+ dxe4 7.Rxe4 Qxa2 8.f7 Qb1+
00:09.1 (12.01+) +4.128 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:08.9 (12.01+) +3.538 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:08.9 (12.01+) +3.243 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:05.2 (11.01=) +3.022 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Bf7 5.Qe7 Qxa2 6.Qxb7 Re8 7.Qe7
00:05.1 (11.01+) +2.961 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Qxe2 5.Qg7#
00:03.7 (10.01=) +2.740 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Qxa2 5.Qg7#
00:01.8 (10.01-) +2.887 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qg5+ Bg6 4.Qxh5 Bxh5 5.f7+ Bxf7 6.f4
00:00.6 (09.01=) +2.887 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.Qf8+
00:00.3 (08.01=) +2.858 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Bg6 4.Qe7 Qd3
00:00.2 (07.01=) +2.422 1.Rxf6 (exf6) Re7 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 Qa5 4.b4
00:00.1 (06.03=) +2.412 1.Rxf6 (exf6) Re7 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 b5
00:00.0 (05.01=) +1.465 1.exf6 (b4) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 b5

It is looking somehow better now.

Reinhard.

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hi Pedro,

I do not know if it still would be of interest, but here are the results of my new and hopefully corrected Smirf Beta BC-061:

[diag]8/3p1p2/5Ppp/K2R2bk/4pPrr/6Pp/4B2P/3N4 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: 8/3p1p2/5Ppp/K2R2bk/4pPrr/6Pp/4B2P/3N4 w - - 0 1

00:00.5 End of thinking (mate found)
00:00.4 (09.14=) +M~004 1.Nc3 (Ne3) d6 2.Bd1 e3 3.Ne2 Rxf4 4.Nxf4#
00:00.3 (09.01=) +8.739 1.Ne3 (=/=) d6 2.fxg5 hxg5 3.gxh4 Kxh4 4.Nxg4 Kh5 5.Rxd6 e3
00:00.1 (08.01=) +7.420 1.Ne3 (=/=) d6 2.fxg5 hxg5 3.gxh4 Kxh4 4.Nxg4 e3
00:00.0 (05.01-) +5.384 1.Ne3 (gxh4) d6 2.fxg5 hxg5 3.Rxd6 Kh6 4.Nxg4+ Rxg4 5.Bxg4

[diag]1q1k4/2Rr4/8/2Q3K1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: 1q1k4/2Rr4/8/2Q3K1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

01:11.0 End of thinking (time/stop)
01:00.0 (20.01=) +3.926 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rd6 5.Qb5+ Kc7 6.Kf7 Rd7+ 7.Kf6 Rd6+ 8.Ke7 Rb6
00:51.3 (20.01+) +2.833 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:51.2 (20.01+) +1.653 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:51.1 (20.01+) +1.063 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:51.0 (20.01+) +0.769 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:50.9 (20.01+) +0.621 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:35.2 (19.01=) +0.548 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:35.0 (19.01+) +0.548 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:23.7 (18.01=) +0.475 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:23.6 (18.01+) +0.475 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:14.7 (17.01=) +0.401 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:08.8 (17.01-) +0.548 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:05.8 (16.01=) +0.548 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:03.7 (15.02=) +0.475 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:02.2 (14.02=) +0.475 1.Kh5 (Kh6) Rd5+ 2.Qxd5+ Kxc7 3.Qe5+ Kb7 4.Qe4+ Ka6 5.Qa4+ Kb7 6.Qb3+ Ka8 7.Qf7 Qb7 8.Qxb7+ Kxb7
00:01.4 (13.03=) +0.548 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:00.9 (12.02=) +0.548 1.Kh5 (Kh6) Rd5+ 2.Qxd5+ Kxc7 3.Qe5+ Kb7 4.Qe4+ Ka6 5.Qa4+ Kb7 6.Kg6 Kc8
00:00.8 (12.01-) +0.560 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:00.6 (11.03=) +0.560 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:00.5 (11.01-) +0.560 1.Kh5 (Rxd7+) Rd5+ 2.Qxd5+ Kxc7 3.Qf7+ Kc6 4.Qc4+ Kd7 5.Kg6 Qd6+ 6.Qe6+ Qxe6+ 7.Kg7
00:00.3 (10.02=) +0.560 1.Kh5 (Kh6) Rd5+ 2.Qxd5+ Kxc7 3.Qf7+ Kc6 4.Qc4+ Kd7 5.Kg6 Qg8+
00:00.2 (09.01=) +0.594 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+ 5.Kxg6 Ke6
00:00.1 (08.01=) +0.740 1.Kh6 (=/=) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+
00:00.0 (07.01=) +0.887 1.Kh6 (Kh5) Rxc7 2.Qf8+ Kd7 3.Qxb8 Rc6+ 4.Kg7 Rg6+

[diag]8/8/6Q1/8/8/7k/3p1pp1/3Kbrrb w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: 8/8/6Q1/8/8/7k/3p1pp1/3Kbrrb w - - 0 1

00:00.1 End of thinking (mate found)
00:00.0 (02.11=) +M~002 1.Qg5 (=/=) Kh2 2.Qh4#

[diag]8/1K1R4/1p6/1N6/kPB5/P7/3P4/8 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: 8/1K1R4/1p6/1N6/kPB5/P7/3P4/8 w - - 0 1

00:00.5 End of thinking (mate found)
00:00.3 (10.22=) +M~005 1.Bd5 (Be2) Kxb5 2.Rd8 Ka4 3.Ra8+ Kb5 4.Ka7 Ka4 5.Kxb6#
00:00.2 (10.01-) +19.35 1.Be2 (Bd3) Kb3 2.Rd5 Kb2 3.a4 Kb3 4.Kxb6 Kb2 5.Bd1 Ka1 6.Rd4
00:00.1 (09.02=) +19.35 1.Be2 (Bd3) Kb3 2.Rc7 Kb2 3.d4 Kb3 4.d5 Ka2 5.Kxb6 Ka1 6.Bd1
00:00.0 (06.01=) +18.71 1.Bd3 (=/=) Kb3 2.Kxb6 Ka2 3.a4 Kb3

[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1

00:55.5 End of thinking (mate found)
00:55.4 (18.01=) +M~006 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:55.0 (18.01+) +38.87 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:54.5 (18.01+) +29.43 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:52.4 (18.01+) +24.71 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:52.2 (18.01+) +21.17 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:52.1 (18.01+) +20.58 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
00:45.6 (17.01=) +20.07 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:44.8 (17.00-) +20.07 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:39.4 (17.01-) +26.11 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:38.5 (17.00-) +25.97 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:33.0 (17.01-) +26.11 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:28.3 (16.01=) +26.11 1.exf6 (=/=) Qd3 2.exd3 Bf5 3.Rxf5 Kh8 4.Re7 Rxf6 5.Rxf6 Rd8 6.Qe2 h4 7.Bg7+ Kg8 8.Qe6#
00:27.4 (16.01+) +26.11 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:24.3 (16.01+) +16.67 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:21.2 (16.01+) +11.96 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:19.6 (16.01+) +9.597 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:19.0 (16.01+) +8.417 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:18.0 (16.01+) +7.827 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:17.8 (16.01+) +7.532 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:17.5 (16.01+) +7.385 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:15.4 (15.01=) +7.312 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:15.0 (15.01+) +7.312 1.exf6 (=/=) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Qxa2 3.Qg5+ Kh8 4.Qg7+ Rxg7 5.fxg7+ Kg8 6.Rf8+ Rxf8 7.gxf8=R#
00:13.4 (14.02=) +7.238 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Bf5 2.Rxf5 Kh8 3.Bg7+ Kg8 4.Rxh5 Qc4 5.Rxh7 Rxf6 6.Rh8+ Kxg7 7.Rxa8 Qxa2 8.Qg5+ Rg6
00:10.8 (14.02+) +7.016 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Rxf6 2.Rxf6 Qxe2 3.Rxe2 Rf8 4.Rxf8#
00:07.9 (14.02+) +5.836 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Rxf6 2.Rxf6 Qxe2 3.Rxe2 Rf8 4.Rxf8#
00:07.7 (14.02+) +5.246 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Rxf6 2.Rxf6 Qxe2 3.Rxe2 Rf8 4.Rxf8#
00:07.7 (14.02+) +4.951 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Rxf6 2.Rxf6 Qxe2 3.Rxe2 Rf8 4.Rxf8#
00:07.6 (14.02+) +4.804 1.exf6 (Rxf6) Rxf6 2.Rxf6 Qxe2 3.Rxe2 Rf8 4.Rxf8#
00:06.7 (14.01-) +4.804 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Rg8 4.Qxh5+ Kxf6 5.Qh4+ Kg6 6.Qxh3 Re8 7.Qf5+ Kxh6 8.Qxh7+ Kxh7
00:05.4 (13.01=) +4.804 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Ke6 5.Qe7+ Kf5 6.Ra1 Qb5 7.f7 Qxb2 8.Rc1
00:05.1 (13.01+) +4.642 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Ke6 5.Qe7+ Kf5 6.Ra1 Qxa2 7.Rxa2 a5
00:04.8 (13.01+) +4.494 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Ke6 5.Qe7+ Kf5 6.Ra1 Qxa2 7.Rxa2 a5
00:03.9 (12.01=) +4.421 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Kf7 3.Qg5 Qa5 4.Qg7+ Ke6 5.Qe7+ Kf5 6.e4+ dxe4 7.Rxe4 Qxa2 8.f7 Qb1+
00:03.3 (12.01+) +4.128 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:03.2 (12.01+) +3.538 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:03.1 (12.01+) +3.243 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.f7+ Bxf7 5.Qf6 Bg6 6.Qg7#
00:01.8 (11.01=) +3.022 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Bf7 5.Qe7 Qxa2 6.Qxb7 Re8 7.Qe7
00:01.7 (11.01+) +2.813 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Qxe2 5.Qg7#
00:01.3 (10.01=) +2.740 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qf4 Bg6 4.Qc7 Qxa2 5.Qg7#
00:00.9 (10.01-) +2.887 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qg5+ Bg6 4.Qxh5 Bxh5 5.f7+ Bxf7 6.f4
00:00.6 (09.01=) +2.887 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Re8 4.h4 Bg6 5.Qf8+
00:00.3 (08.01=) +2.858 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Rxf6 2.exf6 Bf5 3.Qb4 Bg6 4.Qe7 Qd3
00:00.3 (08.01+) +2.643 1.Rxf6 (=/=) Re7 2.Qf4 Qxa2 3.Rf8+ Rxf8 4.Qxf8#
00:00.2 (07.01=) +2.422 1.Rxf6 (exf6) Re7 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 Qa5 4.b4
00:00.1 (06.01=) +1.706 1.exf6 (b4) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Bg7+ Kg8 4.Qxh5 Qa5 5.b4
00:00.0 (04.01=) +1.465 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qxh5 b5

Smirf's mate announcements still have an estimated mating depth.

Regards, Reinhard.

[F.Huber]

Hallo Reinhard,

[diag]r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1[/diag]
FEN: r5k1/pp3r1p/q1p2p1B/3pP2p/8/5RPb/PP1QPP1P/4R1K1 w - - 0 1

00:55.5 End of thinking (mate found)
00:55.4 (18.01=) +M~006 1.exf6 (=/=) Qxa2 2.Qg5+ Kh8 3.Qg7+ Rxg7 4.fxg7+ Kg8 5.Rf8+ Rxf8 6.gxf8=Q#
...
Smirf's mate announcements still have an estimated mating depth.

also da war aber das Ergebnis in Deinem vorangehenden Posting etwas zuverl?ssiger!
Ein zu langes Matt zu finden ist ja (zumindest f?r einen Nicht-Mattl?ser) kein gro?es Problem, aber ein zu kurzes Matt anzuk?ndigen ist eigentlich unkorrekt - vielleicht solltest Du Dir diese Aufgabe nochmal ansehen um herauszufinden, warum jetzt pl?tzlich ein #6 (statt des richtigen #8) gefunden wird.

Gr??e,
Franz.

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hallo Franz,

nun, ich kann es durchaus verstehen, dass die aktuelle Mattsansage von Smirf auf dein Unverst?ndnis st??t. Immerhin hat so etwas bei meinen SmirfMate Experimenten doch recht ordentlich geklappt.

Aber es ist so: Smirf als spielendes Programm interessiert zur Zeit einfach nicht die wahre Matttiefe. Er unterscheidet auch gar nicht danach innerhalb des Suchbaumes - ein Punkt, der sicher demn?chst einmal ge?ndert werden wird. F?r Smirf ist aktuell jedes Matt ein Matt. F?r ein Mattl?seprogramm ist die Tiefe h?chst relevant, f?r Smirf jedoch aktuell eben nicht.

Man kann die gefundene Mattline als den plausibelsten Mattweg bezeichnen (aus der dynamischen Sicht von Smirf) korrespondierend zum Zuschnitt des Suchbaumes. Das Programm pflegt ?brigens keine Hauptvariante w?hrend der Suche. Vielmehr wird diese im Nachhinein aus der Transpositionstabelle rekonstruiert.

Wie ich schon sagte, Smirf ist (noch) kein Mattl?seprogramm. Ist aber ein Matt innerhalb des Suchbaumes m?glich, so wird es gefunden. Das Kriterium minimale Tiefe ist dabei ohne Belang, nicht aber dagegen die N?he zum plausiblen Mittelstrang des Suchbaumes.

Gru?, Reinhard.

[Pedro Castro]

Hi Reinhard,

I not understood both last commentaries, but it would say you that personally I like plus the version where Smirf announces mate correctly in 8, although am a little slower. I have found analyzing positions very interesting, for example those that I sent, but also I will say to you that everything is not to examine positions, I have two versions of the program, one that solves to more express the problems as you mate and other than makes slower but soon it plays better in games, everything by small modifications in the null move.

I am going to you to enclose other positions, although you are do not have to do with the null move so that you can test the speed of the program in solving you mate.

mate in 13 (check extension)

[diag]1kbr3r/pp6/8/P1n2ppq/2N3n1/R3Q1P1/3B1P2/2R2BK1 w - - 0 1[/diag]

FEN: 1kbr3r/pp6/8/P1n2ppq/2N3n1/R3Q1P1/3B1P2/2R2BK1 w - - 0 1

DanaSah v.1.5:
1 00:00 60 60 +2,45 Dxc5
2 00:00 456 456 +2,30 Dxc5
2 00:00 582 58.200 +0,80 Dxc5
2 00:00 1.181 118.100 -6,41 Ag2 Dh2+ Rf1 Cxe3+ Txe3
3 00:00 2.368 236.800 -6,41 Ag2 Dh2+ Rf1 Cxe3+ Txe3
4 00:00 6.747 224.900 -6,52 Ag2 Cxe3 Txe3 Ae6
5 00:00 18.780 375.600 -6,56 Ag2 Cxe3 Txe3 Dh2+ Rf1 Ae6
6 00:00 50.624 506.240 -6,51 Ag2 Cxe3 Txe3 Dh2+ Rf1 Ae6 Ab4
7 00:00 138.458 601.991 -6,56 Ag2 Cxe3 Txe3 f4 Te7 Cb3 Tc2 Cxd2 Txd2 fxg3 fxg3
8 00:00 543.516 679.395 -6,41 Df4+
8 00:01 1.278.796 649.135 -4,91 Df4+
8 00:01 1.340.060 647.371 -3,95 Df4+ gxf4 Axf4+ Ce5 Axe5+ Ra8 Axh8 Txh8 Ag2 Dh2+ Rf1 Ae6
9 00:02 1.441.864 649.488 -3,80 Df4+
9 00:02 1.496.733 645.143 -2,30 Df4+
9 00:02 1.600.795 645.481 +0,11 Df4+ gxf4 Axf4+ Ce5 Axe5+ Td6 Axd6+ Ra8 Ag2 Dh2+ Rf1 Ca6 Te3 Ad7
10 00:02 1.819.826 656.976 +0,26 Df4+
10 00:03 2.175.947 653.437 +1,76 Df4+
10 00:03 2.216.573 655.790 +8,69 Df4+ gxf4 Axf4+ Ce5 Axe5+ Td6 Axd6+ Ra8 Cb6+ axb6 axb6+ Ca6 Txc8+ Txc8 Txa6+ bxa6 Ag2+ Df3 Axf3+ Tc6 Axc6+
11 00:03 2.244.403 656.258 +8,84 Df4+
11 00:03 2.244.644 656.328 +10,34 Df4+
11 00:03 2.332.525 660.771 +M11 Df4+ gxf4 Axf4+ Ce5 Axe5+ Td6 Axd6+ Ra8 Cb6+ axb6 axb6+ Ca6 Txc8+ Txc8 Txa6+ bxa6 Ag2+ Df3 Axf3+ Tc6 Axc6+

mate in 10

[diag]rnbq1b1r/p1pp1p1p/4k3/1p1NP1p1/2QP1p2/5N2/PP1B1KPP/n6R w - - 0 1[/diag]

FEN: rnbq1b1r/p1pp1p1p/4k3/1p1NP1p1/2QP1p2/5N2/PP1B1KPP/n6R w - - 0 1

DanaSah v.1.5:
1 00:00 165 165 -7,41 Cxc7+ Re7 Cxb5
2 00:00 1.240 1.240 -7,26 Cxc7+
2 00:00 1.333 1.333 -5,76 Cxc7+
2 00:00 1.498 1.498 -3,81 Cxc7+ Re7 Db4+ d6 Cxa8
3 00:00 7.432 371.600 -3,66 Cxc7+
3 00:00 8.457 422.850 -3,51 Cxc7+ Re7 Db4+ d6 exd6+ Dxd6 Dxd6+ Rxd6 Cxa8
4 00:00 35.804 511.485 -3,35 Cxf4+
4 00:00 43.145 539.312 -1,85 Cxc7+
4 00:00 53.121 531.210 -1,63 Cxc7+ Rf5 Dxf7+ Re4 Dd5+ Rd3 Dxb5+ Re4 Cxa8
5 00:00 114.408 672.988 -1,47 Cxg5+
5 00:00 136.602 650.485 -1,39 Cxc7+ Rf5 Dxf7+ Re4 Dd5+ Rd3 Dxb5+ Re4 Te1+ Rf5 Cxa8
6 00:00 256.510 732.885 -1,23 Cxg5+
6 00:00 266.455 720.148 +0,28 Cxc7+
6 00:00 412.139 749.343 +2,09 Cxc7+ Re7 Ab4+ d6 Axd6+ Dxd6 exd6+ Rxd6 Cxb5+ Re7 Dxc8
7 00:00 676.373 768.605 +2,24 Cxc7+
7 00:00 772.819 772.819 +3,00 Cxc7+ Re7 Ab4+ d6 Axd6+ Dxd6 exd6+ Rd8 Dxf7 Axd6 Cxa8
8 00:01 1.304.180 780.946 +3,16 Cxg5+
8 00:01 1.556.640 786.181 +4,66 Cxg5+
8 00:01 1.685.855 784.118 +4,69 Cxg5+ Dxg5 Cxf4+ Re7 Cd5+ Re8 Cxc7+ Rd8 Axg5+ Ae7 Axe7+ Rxe7 Dc5+ Rd8 Cxa8
9 00:04 3.928.062 830.457 +4,84 Cxg5+
9 00:05 4.254.214 813.425 +5,45 Cxg5+ Dxg5 Cxf4+ Re7 Cd5+ Re8 Cxc7+ Rd8 Axg5+ f6 Axf6+ Ae7 Axe7+ Rxe7 Dc5+ Rd8 Cxa8
10 00:09 7.650.318 827.956 +5,61 Cxc7+
10 00:12 10.582.636 814.675 +7,11 Cxg5+
10 00:13 10.896.654 823.010 +M10 Cxg5+ Dxg5 Cxc7+ Re7 Cd5+ Re6 Cxf4+ Re7 Cd5+ Re8 Dxc8+ Dd8 Cc7+ Re7 Ab4+ d6 Axd6+ Dxd6 De8+

mate in 10

[diag]4r1k1/rp2Bppp/p1b5/1q2Q3/R7/1P5P/P4PP1/3R2K1 w - - 0 1[/diag]

FEN: 4r1k1/rp2Bppp/p1b5/1q2Q3/R7/1P5P/P4PP1/3R2K1 w - - 0 1

DanaSah v.1.5:
1 00:00 129 129 -0,05 Dxb5 Axb5
2 00:00 796 79.600 -0,05 Dxb5 Axb5
3 00:00 5.152 515.200 +0,11 Ta5
3 00:00 6.020 602.000 +0,16 Dxb5 Axb5 Te4
4 00:00 22.883 381.383 +0,06 Dxb5 Axb5 Te4 b6
5 00:00 57.936 526.690 +0,07 Ta5 Dxe5 Txe5 b6 Ad6
6 00:00 124.812 594.342 +0,07 Ta5 Dxe5 Txe5 b6 Ad6 Taa8
7 00:00 219.408 645.317 +0,12 Ta5 Dxe5 Txe5 b6 Ad6 Txe5 Axe5
8 00:01 811.678 665.309 0,00 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 Txf6+ Rh5 Th4+ Rg5 Tg4+ Rh5
9 00:02 1.844.630 683.196 0,00 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 Txf6+ Rh5 Th4+ Rg5 Tg4+ Rh5
10 00:05 4.051.284 707.030 0,00 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 Txf6+ Rh5 Th4+ Rg5 Tg4+ Rh5
11 00:10 7.680.238 698.838 +0,15 Dxg7+
11 00:16 10.678.587 657.143 +1,65 Dxg7+
11 00:17 11.632.609 655.358 +4,99 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Dg5 Txg5+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 f4 Ae4 Txf6+ Ag6 Af8+ Txf8 Txf8 b6 Te5
12 00:20 14.101.170 687.526 +4,84 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Dg5 Txg5+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 f4 Ae4 Txf6+ Ag6 Af8+ Txf8 Txf8 b6 Te5
12 00:23 16.618.290 699.422 +4,78 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Dg5 Txg5+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 f4 Ae4 Txf6+ Ag6 Af8+ Txf8 Txf8 b6 Te5 Td7
13 00:26 19.108.879 714.083 +4,93 Dxg7+
13 00:27 19.760.766 711.586 +6,43 Dxg7+
13 00:29 21.261.950 714.207 +M10 Dxg7+ Rxg7 Tg4+ Dg5 Txg5+ Rh6 Td6+ f6 Txf6+ Rxg5 f4+ Rh5 g4+ Rh4 Rh2 h5 Th6+ Txe7 Txh5+

My program has problems to solve in 3 minutes,

mate in 11
r4r2/1q2ppk1/b1np2p1/6P1/4P3/1BNnBP2/PP1K4/R2Q3R w - - 0 1

mate in 7
r3rk2/ppq2pbQ/2p1b1p1/4p1B1/2P3P1/3P1B2/P3PPK1/1R5R w - - 0 1

[Niyaz Khasanov]

...there seem to be some incompatibilities between the Delphi graphic routines and my graphic card: the bitmaps of the chess pieces and the board are not displayed properly, so I can?t even identify the different kinds of pieces! But at least on my faster desktop it?s working without problems.
(There are also a few other programs (e.g. RDChess) showing the same display errors on my notebook (but not on my faster desktop), and all seem to be written in Delphi ..

Sad news!
Could you show a minimal piece of code on Delphi which gives the same error?

[Volker Annuss]

Aber es ist so: Smirf als spielendes Programm interessiert zur Zeit einfach nicht die wahre Matttiefe. Er unterscheidet auch gar nicht danach innerhalb des Suchbaumes - ein Punkt, der sicher demn?chst einmal ge?ndert werden wird. F?r Smirf ist aktuell jedes Matt ein Matt. F?r ein Mattl?seprogramm ist die Tiefe h?chst relevant, f?r Smirf jedoch aktuell eben nicht.

Hallo Reinhard,

gut zu wissen . Sollten wir also in Mainz aufeinander treffen und Smirf einen Vorteil haben, werde ich mir das Matt zeigen lassen. Es k?nnte ja sein, dass sich Smirf nach jedem Zug f?r ein anderes Matt entscheidet, mal eins in 3, dann in 6, dann vielleicht in 4 usw, aber mattgesetzt wird nie.

So ein Verhalten habe ich bei fr?heren Versionen von Hermann und auch bei anderen Programmen tats?chlich beobachtet.

Aber im Ernst, ich denke "zur Zeit", "demn?chst einmal" und "aktuell" bedeutet, dass eben doch korrigiert wird, bevor ich eine Chance habe, es auszunutzen, oder?

Gr??e,
Volker

[Reinhard Scharnagl]

Hallo Volker,

... werde ich mir das Matt zeigen lassen.

ich glaube, so etwas schadete nie!

Es k?nnte ja sein, dass sich Smirf nach jedem Zug f?r ein anderes Matt entscheidet, mal eins in 3, dann in 6, dann vielleicht in 4 usw, aber mattgesetzt wird nie.

Nein, soweit ich es beurteilen kann, konvergiert es. Allerdings wird in dem obersten Entscheidungsmodul dann doch nach dem erkennbar n?chsten Matt gesucht, allerdings auf Basis einer diesbez?glich ungenauen Information. Es ist einfach nicht Ergebnis relevant, ob man einz?gig oder f?nfz?gig matt gesetzt wird.

Aber im Ernst, ich denke "zur Zeit", "demn?chst einmal" und "aktuell" bedeutet, dass eben doch korrigiert wird, bevor ich eine Chance habe, es auszunutzen, oder?

Ich denke schon, dass ich dies ?ndern werde - korrigieren kann man nur Fehlverhalten, doch dies ist eben keines. Noch haben andere Dinge Priorit?t. So spielt Smirf noch immer mit der nur unwesentlich ver?nderten Bewertungsfunktion aus der Gothic Chess WM im November 2004. Die habe ich ziemlich wild aus dem Bauch heraus improvisiert. Bei einer Gr??e von 52K der Engine (incl. zahlreicher Testroutinen) kann man nicht von viel implementiertem Schachwissen ausgehen, was ich vom Prinzip her eher grunds?tzlich vermeiden m?chte.

Welche GUI wirst du in Mainz verwenden?

Gru?, Reinhard.