WBEC Ridderkerk new results.

[Leo Dijksman]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 28 April 2004 17:06:08:

Premier Division:
Round 8:
DeepSjeng 1.6 11½½ 3.0/4
Dragon 4.6b 00½½ 1.0/4
------------------------------------
Nejmet 3.07 011½ 2.5/4
Zarkov 4.67 100½ 1.5/4
------------------------------------
Quark 2.35 Paderborn 0110 2.0/4
Yace 0.99.77 1001 2.0/4
------------------------------------

2nd Division:
Round 9:
The Baron 1.3.0b3 1111 4.0/4 !!
The CrazyBishop 0050 0000 0.0/4
------------------------------------
KnightDreamer 3.2 1½10 2.5/4
Scidlet 3.6 0½01 1.5/4
------------------------------------
Frenzee 146 1011 3.0/4
Cerebro 1.24 0100 1.0/4
------------------------------------
Round 10:
Amateur 2.80 - Terra 3.3b10 1-0 = 3 games to go!
------------------------------------

4th Division:
Round 15:
Celes 0.78 wbec7 1001 2.0/4
GK 0.90 0110 2.0/4
------------------------------------
Tinker 4.47 0011 2.0/4
Plywood 1.73 1100 2.0/4
------------------------------------
Sunsetter C10 1101 3.0/4
SseChess 2.04.5 0010 1.0/4
------------------------------------
Round 16:
Alarm 0.93.1 11 2.0/2 = 2 games to go!
Plywood 1.73 00 0.0/2
------------------------------------

Crosstables and pgn on the WBEC homepage.
Enginelist, latest updates/new engines:
28/04/2004:
Updated: Neurosis 1.7 (also 3D version!)
Updated: Murderhole 1.0.10

Best wishes,
Leo.


WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 28 April 2004 17:58:30:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 28 April 2004 17:06:08:

DeepSjeng 1.6 11½½ 3.0/4
Dragon 4.6b 00½½ 1.0/4
------------------------------------
The Baron 1.3.0b3 1111 4.0/4 !!
The CrazyBishop 0050 0000 0.0/4
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Frenzee 146 1011 3.0/4
Cerebro 1.24 0100 1.0/4
------------------------------------

Deep Sjeng goes to work in its usual relentless fashion.


Of course I fail to see the reason for the excitement of the !! but hey, I will take it anyway.
Don't hate me because I support the Baron in such a shameless fashion!
Hmmmm....do not hate me, period.



Frenzee does the business. See Sune, I am not an anti-fan! It is just that when it comes to the Baron, well, I just get all angry and bloodthirsty, totally unlike my normal gentle, smiling self.
Terrible the effect that the Baron has had on my personality. It is all about climbing to the next level...
Later.

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Sune Fischer at 28 April 2004 19:10:18:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 28 April 2004 17:58:30:

DeepSjeng 1.6 11½½ 3.0/4
Dragon 4.6b 00½½ 1.0/4
------------------------------------
The Baron 1.3.0b3 1111 4.0/4 !!
The CrazyBishop 0050 0000 0.0/4
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Frenzee 146 1011 3.0/4
Cerebro 1.24 0100 1.0/4
------------------------------------

Deep Sjeng goes to work in its usual relentless fashion.


Of course I fail to see the reason for the excitement of the !! but hey, I will take it anyway.
Don't hate me because I support the Baron in such a shameless fashion!
Hmmmm....do not hate me, period.



Frenzee does the business.
See Sune, I am not an anti-fan! It is just that when it comes to the Baron, well, I just get all angry and bloodthirsty, totally unlike my normal gentle, smiling self.
Terrible the effect that the Baron has had on my personality. It is all about climbing to the next level...
Later.

Those are comfort points, a gift from a very generous Cerebro trying to spare frenzee from total humiliation.
A poor old tired little sheep is trying desperately to survive among the
wolves and you cheer for the wolves!
The word bloodthirst is not off the mark I think
Oh who will you cheer for in a Baron-Terra match?
"There can be only one", you know.
Okidoki
-S.

[Norm Pollock]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 20:14:32:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Sune Fischer at 28 April 2004 19:10:18:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24. Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

[Leo Dijksman]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 28 April 2004 20:40:24:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 20:14:32:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24. Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

Program Elo + - Games Score Av.Op. Draws
1 Crafty 19.12 : 2725 107 125 28 73.2 % 2550 32.1 %
2 DeepSjeng 1.6 : 2652 121 123 28 62.5 % 2563 25.0 %
3 The King 3.23 : 2629 116 90 28 66.1 % 2513 46.4 %
4 Aristarch 4.41 : 2626 126 96 28 58.9 % 2563 39.3 %
5 WARP 0.58 : 2599 123 103 28 60.7 % 2524 35.7 %
6 Gandalf 4.32h : 2582 107 107 32 50.0 % 2582 31.2 %
7 Ruffian 2.1.0 : 2579 139 88 24 58.3 % 2521 50.0 %
8 Tao 5.6 : 2542 134 106 28 53.6 % 2517 28.6 %
9 Amyan 1.593b : 2524 120 128 28 42.9 % 2574 21.4 %
10 Yace 0.99.77 : 2516 85 123 32 45.3 % 2549 40.6 %
11 Quark 2.35 Paderborn : 2511 123 131 28 44.6 % 2548 17.9 %
12 GreenLightChess 3.00 : 2508 67 120 32 43.8 % 2552 56.2 %
13 Zarkov 4.67 : 2497 101 115 32 40.6 % 2563 31.2 %
14 Nejmet 3.07 : 2490 79 118 32 42.2 % 2544 46.9 %
15 SmarThink 0.18a-r119 : 2487 98 146 24 45.8 % 2516 41.7 %
16 LittleGoliath 3.9po : 2469 108 113 32 39.1 % 2546 28.1 %
17 Dragon 4.6b : 2458 113 104 32 31.2 % 2595 31.2 %

Leo.


WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Sune Fischer at 28 April 2004 20:42:38:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 20:14:32:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24.
Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

Yes. It might be an idea to have "bye" entrance which gives a neutral 2 of 4
points. Could be removed at the end of course.
Yes, I was thinking perhaps one could do the pairing in a sort of inversed
swiss style. If instead of winner playes winner, one could do winner
playes loser, this way the winners wouldn't meet eachother until the very end.
It won't affect the final result in a round robin, but all the best would be saved for last.
Just a thought.
-S.

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 28 April 2004 20:44:19:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 20:14:32:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24. Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

Hello Norm,
I am genuinely confused - nothing new here.

The positions in the table are based on completed games and Leo chooses to update the table fairly often. Waiting until all the games of a cycle would result in less frequent updates. I will take this approach of more updates rather than less thank you.
Further, precisely what perspective are you lacking? Engine one completes 20 games of which it won 16. Engine two has not yet completed 20 games - say it did complete 16 - where is the loss in perspective? Suppose engine two loses every game from 16 t0 20 inclusive, so that it ends up with 14 wins out of 20. Should not that engine be behind engine one (all other things being equal of course)?
Percentage ratings are of cold comfort when what is important is the number of points awarded. That is what determines who number one, two, three etc is. It might be interesting to know the engines with the highest win percentage engine is but generally the one that wins fits that bill.
I do not presume to speak for Leo -never- but if you are offering to assist in the practical execution of your various suggstions he may take you up on it. Look at the winboard ini files which are updated regularly on his site - that is a labour of love which I genuinely appreciate but would be far too lazy to do myself.

Later.

[Norm Pollock]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:02:01:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 28 April 2004 20:40:24:

This gives percentages, but they not arranged by elos not percentages. In my opinion, the best way would to arrange by points, with percentages and s-b as additional columns.
The problem is only acute when there are an odd number of participants. With an even number the wbtms go round by round so the discrepancy is at most one round's worth of games. But in the current case of the premier division, some engines have played 32 games, some 28 games and some 24 games. In that case, points alone does not tell the story.

[Norm Pollock]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:07:04:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:02:01:

This gives percentages, but they not arranged by elos not percentages. In my opinion, the best way would to arrange by points, with percentages and s-b as additional columns.
The problem is only acute when there are an odd number of participants. With an even number the wbtms go round by round so the discrepancy is at most one round's worth of games. But in the current case of the premier division, some engines have played 32 games, some 28 games and some 24 games. In that case, points alone does not tell the story.

I have to correct my first sentence since it does make sense. I meant to say:
The above mentioned table gives percentages, but engines ARE arranged by elos not percentages.
I hope that helps.
--Norm

[Norm Pollock]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:13:34:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 28 April 2004 20:44:19:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24. Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

Hello Norm,
I am genuinely confused - nothing new here.

The positions in the table are based on completed games and Leo chooses to update the table fairly often. Waiting until all the games of a cycle would result in less frequent updates. I will take this approach of more updates rather than less thank you.
Further, precisely what perspective are you lacking? Engine one completes 20 games of which it won 16. Engine two has not yet completed 20 games - say it did complete 16 - where is the loss in perspective? Suppose engine two loses every game from 16 t0 20 inclusive, so that it ends up with 14 wins out of 20. Should not that engine be behind engine one (all other things being equal of course)?
Percentage ratings are of cold comfort when what is important is the number of points awarded. That is what determines who number one, two, three etc is. It might be interesting to know the engines with the highest win percentage engine is but generally the one that wins fits that bill.
I do not presume to speak for Leo -never- but if you are offering to assist in the practical execution of your various suggstions he may take you up on it. Look at the winboard ini files which are updated regularly on his site - that is a labour of love which I genuinely appreciate but would be far too lazy to do myself.

Later.

First of all, I sincerely have the highest admiration and respect for the excellent tournaments and the job that Leo does. I thank him very much.
Roger, I think you are misunderstanding my points on two levels. First of all, the 16/20 games situtation is fine. It is the 24/28/32 games situation that is bad. The latter occurs only when there is an odd number of participants in a tournament.
And you misunderstand "percentage". It is not the winning percentage I'm talking about, but the percentage of points obtained to possible points. For example: 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses would have a 50.0% because of 9 points out of a possible 18.

-- Norm

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Dann Corbit at 28 April 2004 22:49:19:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:13:34:

The premier division standings lack perspective because of the way the wbtm handles an odd # (17) of engines. The wbtm has some engines already finished with 32 matches, others with 28, and still others like ruffian and smarthink have only finished 24. Maybe if there was a percentage rating as well, it would put things into perspective. As long as I'm at it, an S-B rating would also be helpful. It could give us an indication of which engine has faced the toughest competition so far.

Hello Norm,
I am genuinely confused - nothing new here.

The positions in the table are based on completed games and Leo chooses to update the table fairly often. Waiting until all the games of a cycle would result in less frequent updates. I will take this approach of more updates rather than less thank you.
Further, precisely what perspective are you lacking? Engine one completes 20 games of which it won 16. Engine two has not yet completed 20 games - say it did complete 16 - where is the loss in perspective? Suppose engine two loses every game from 16 t0 20 inclusive, so that it ends up with 14 wins out of 20. Should not that engine be behind engine one (all other things being equal of course)?
Percentage ratings are of cold comfort when what is important is the number of points awarded. That is what determines who number one, two, three etc is. It might be interesting to know the engines with the highest win percentage engine is but generally the one that wins fits that bill.
I do not presume to speak for Leo -never- but if you are offering to assist in the practical execution of your various suggstions he may take you up on it. Look at the winboard ini files which are updated regularly on his site - that is a labour of love which I genuinely appreciate but would be far too lazy to do myself.

Later.

First of all, I sincerely have the highest admiration and respect for the excellent tournaments and the job that Leo does. I thank him very much.
Roger, I think you are misunderstanding my points on two levels. First of all, the 16/20 games situtation is fine. It is the 24/28/32 games situation that is bad. The latter occurs only when there is an odd number of participants in a tournament.
And you misunderstand "percentage". It is not the winning percentage I'm talking about, but the percentage of points obtained to possible points. For example: 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses would have a 50.0% because of 9 points out of a possible 18.

-- Norm

I don't think it is bad. It adds a bit of flare and excitement as big comebacks are possible. I can also look at the result and extrapolate in my mind about where the participants "really are" which is a fun mental exercise.



my ftp site {remove http:// unless you like error messages}

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 29 April 2004 02:10:15:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Norm Pollock at 28 April 2004 22:13:34:

First of all, I sincerely have the highest admiration and respect for the excellent tournaments and the job that Leo does. I thank him very much.
Roger, I think you are misunderstanding my points on two levels.

Agreed. On all of the above. I therefore withdraw...

First of all, the 16/20 games situtation is fine. It is the 24/28/32 games situation that is bad.

As Dann said, this is really a rush for me. What happens next is as much a part of the WBEC excitement as what happened already.
Later.

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 29 April 2004 02:12:47:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Sune Fischer at 28 April 2004 19:10:18:

Oh who will you cheer for in a Baron-Terra match?
"There can be only one", you know.

Oh hush!!

Later.