Replicant

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 07:57:43:

Some people are saying Replicant is a TSCP clone and should be removed from tournaments. I need to decide quickly whether I kick it off from my E tournament (starting tomorrow). I sent an email yesterday to Tom Kerrigan to have his feelings, but no response so far.
What do you think ?
Olivier


ChessWar

[Wael Deeb]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Wael Deeb at 02 May 2004 08:25:53:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Replicant geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 07:57:43:

Some people are saying Replicant is a TSCP clone and should be removed from tournaments. I need to decide quickly whether I kick it off from my E tournament (starting tomorrow). I sent an email yesterday to Tom Kerrigan to have his feelings, but no response so far.
What do you think ?
Olivier

Hi Oliver,
I posted the same question about 2 weeks ago when I tokk a win over replicant with black piecses,but got no answer!
IMHO,you can use it in your tournament because I see that Leo has an info page for it and AFAIK Leo don't tolerate clones!
Regards,
Dr.WAEL DEEB

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 08:53:32:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Replicant geschrieben von:/posted by: Wael Deeb at 02 May 2004 08:25:53:

Some people are saying Replicant is a TSCP clone and should be removed from tournaments. I need to decide quickly whether I kick it off from my E tournament (starting tomorrow). I sent an email yesterday to Tom Kerrigan to have his feelings, but no response so far.
What do you think ?
Olivier

Hi Oliver,
I posted the same question about 2 weeks ago when I tokk a win over replicant with black piecses,but got no answer!
IMHO,you can use it in your tournament because I see that Leo has an info page for it and AFAIK Leo don't tolerate clones!
Regards,
Dr.WAEL DEEB

Thanks for your answer Wael Yes I noticed that Leo lets it play in his tournament.
Other opinions ?
Olivier


ChessWar

[Leo Dijksman]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 02 May 2004 09:25:01:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Replicant geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 08:53:32:

Some people are saying Replicant is a TSCP clone and should be removed from tournaments. I need to decide quickly whether I kick it off from my E tournament (starting tomorrow). I sent an email yesterday to Tom Kerrigan to have his feelings, but no response so far.
What do you think ?
Olivier

Hi Oliver,
I posted the same question about 2 weeks ago when I tokk a win over replicant with black piecses,but got no answer!
IMHO,you can use it in your tournament because I see that Leo has an info page for it and AFAIK Leo don't tolerate clones!
Regards,
Dr.WAEL DEEB

Thanks for your answer Wael Yes I noticed that Leo lets it play in his tournament.
Other opinions ?
Olivier

That will not say its no "clone", there are more suspicious engines but as long nobody "proves" it is one......
Its easier to see if Rashess is a clone of Pharaon, it plays fine with the z_book.bin (
I just tryed it after I was informed about Rashess/Pharaon.
Best wishes,
Leo.



WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:32:10:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Replicant geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 02 May 2004 09:25:01:

Thanks for your answer, Leo... What you are saying about Rashess, is it proven ? I received Rashess for my tournament, but I will ban it at once if you tell me for sure it is a clone of Pharaon.
There are many engines now, and we don't want to lose time with clones...
Olivier


ChessWar

[Leo Dijksman]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 02 May 2004 09:53:20:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: What ? Rashess a clone... geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:32:10:

Thanks for your answer, Leo... What you are saying about Rashess, is it proven ? I received Rashess for my tournament, but I will ban it at once if you tell me for sure it is a clone of Pharaon.
There are many engines now, and we don't want to lose time with clones...
Olivier

Try to use it with the Pharaon/ZChess book and take your conclusion, you dont need to rename the book!
Leo.



WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:57:18:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: What ? Rashess a clone... geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:32:10:

Thanks for your answer, Leo... What you are saying about Rashess, is it proven ? I received Rashess for my tournament, but I will ban it at once if you tell me for sure it is a clone of Pharaon.
There are many engines now, and we don't want to lose time with clones...
Olivier

I see Rashess has disappeared from your "new engines" list, so I assume the answer is yes
I think that I won't take Atlas either, it needs some cleaning, see what says the author : http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/65360.htm
Olivier


ChessWar

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 10:52:15:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: What ? Rashess a clone... geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 02 May 2004 09:53:20:

Thanks for your answer, Leo... What you are saying about Rashess, is it proven ? I received Rashess for my tournament, but I will ban it at once if you tell me for sure it is a clone of Pharaon.
There are many engines now, and we don't want to lose time with clones...
Olivier

Try to use it with the Pharaon/ZChess book and take your conclusion, you dont need to rename the book!
Leo.

Just made the test... you just have to copy Pharaon book in Rashess folder, and Rashess will play with book
What a shame
Olivier


ChessWar

[Leo Dijksman]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 02 May 2004 11:22:37:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Rashess is Pharaon clone... geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 10:52:15:

Thanks for your answer, Leo... What you are saying about Rashess, is it proven ? I received Rashess for my tournament, but I will ban it at once if you tell me for sure it is a clone of Pharaon.
There are many engines now, and we don't want to lose time with clones...
Olivier

Try to use it with the Pharaon/ZChess book and take your conclusion, you dont need to rename the book!
Leo.

Just made the test... you just have to copy Pharaon book in Rashess folder, and Rashess will play with book
What a shame
Olivier

Right!
It was Alex (Thanks!) who informed me this morning, he found it at the uci options and then I tryed the book with the given result.
I have not made a decision (for WBEC) about Atlas and DanChess yet, probably I will do later this week.
Leo.



WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.

[Telmo Escobar]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Telmo Escobar at 03 May 2004 00:21:34:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Rashess, Atlas, etc... geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:57:18:

I think that I won't take Atlas either, it needs some cleaning, see what says the author : http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/65360.htm
Olivier

Beware that Atlas probably is no clone. My reasons to guess that way are the following:
1) Atlas has a separate opening book (called libro.txt)
2) The executable is much bigger than the executable in TSCP
3) watching a game between them, and watching the lines they analyze, I can't help thinking that Atlas has more chess knowledge than TSCP. This is of course subjective and could be a false impression. It's true that both engines seem to be of equal or very similar strength.
I'd suggest running a tournament where both Atlas and TSCP take place- that would provide more significant data about Atlas.
Telmo

[Günther Simon]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 03 May 2004 00:29:29:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Rashess, Atlas, etc... geschrieben von:/posted by: Telmo Escobar at 03 May 2004 00:21:34:

I think that I won't take Atlas either, it needs some cleaning, see what says the author : http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/65360.htm
Olivier

Beware that Atlas probably is no clone. My reasons to guess that way are the following:

Why do you want to guess sth? (BTW TSCP also has a book since quite
a while now...) You just have to read, what the author himself wrote
in the post, which Olivier showed.
Regards,
Günther

[Telmo Escobar]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Telmo Escobar at 03 May 2004 00:40:22:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Rashess, Atlas, etc... geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 09:57:18:


I renamed the opening book libro.txt (to "librote.tst" but the name surely doesn't matter) and ran a game Atlas-TSCP.
Atlas thinks from the initial position (AFAIK TSCP181 includes a tiny opening
book inside).
Both engines have different opinion about some significant positional decisions. For instance, after 1.e3 d5 2.Bb5+ c6, Atlas (pondering its next move 3.Bd3) thinks 3...c5 is the likely reply. TSCP instead is instantly fond of 3...e5.
Last but not least...

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "XX"]
[Date "2004.05.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Atlas"]
[Black "TSCP181"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "300"]
1. e3 d5 2. Bb5+ c6 3. Bd3 e5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nh3 Bxh3 6. gxh3 Nbd7 7. O-O
Bb4 8. a3 Bd6 9. Qf3 e4 10. Bxe4 Ne5 11. Qg2 dxe4
*
...a "clone" should not play this bad!
Telmo

[Axel Schumacher]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Axel Schumacher at 03 May 2004 01:15:30:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: A little experiment with Atlas- probably not a "clone" geschrieben von:/posted by: Telmo Escobar at 03 May 2004 00:40:22:

I renamed the opening book libro.txt (to "librote.tst" but the name surely doesn't matter) and ran a game Atlas-TSCP.
Atlas thinks from the initial position (AFAIK TSCP181 includes a tiny opening
book inside).
Both engines have different opinion about some significant positional decisions. For instance, after 1.e3 d5 2.Bb5+ c6, Atlas (pondering its next move 3.Bd3) thinks 3...c5 is the likely reply. TSCP instead is instantly fond of 3...e5.
Last but not least...

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "XX"]
[Date "2004.05.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Atlas"]
[Black "TSCP181"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "300"]
1. e3 d5 2. Bb5+ c6 3. Bd3 e5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nh3 Bxh3 6. gxh3 Nbd7 7. O-O
Bb4 8. a3 Bd6 9. Qf3 e4 10. Bxe4 Ne5 11. Qg2 dxe4
*
...a "clone" should not play this bad!
Telmo

This doesn't change the fact that Atlas has the exact same console mode output. The engine is at least 95% TSCP, maybe there are some eval changes, but that's it.
A.

[Matthias Gemuh]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 03 May 2004 04:56:34:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: A little experiment with Atlas- probably not a "clone" geschrieben von:/posted by: Telmo Escobar at 03 May 2004 00:40:22:

comparing with TSCP 1.81 ? why not with TSCP 1.73 ? or other version ?
Have you at least compared strings in executable files ?
Your "proofs" are meaningless.
/Matthias.


BigLion + Taktix

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 03 May 2004 06:43:23:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Replicant geschrieben von:/posted by: Olivier Deville at 02 May 2004 07:57:43:

Some people are saying Replicant is a TSCP clone and should be removed from tournaments. I need to decide quickly whether I kick it off from my E tournament (starting tomorrow). I sent an email yesterday to Tom Kerrigan to have his feelings, but no response so far.
What do you think ?
Olivier

I got an answer from Tom Kerrigan, he thinks Replicant is TSCP clone, but adds he could be wrong... We get no proof, I'll keep it then.
Olivier




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