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by **Paul Hunter** » 07 May 2004, 18:14

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Paul Hunter at 07 May 2004 19:14:31:

Does anyone have statistics on which crafty is the strongest ever? Is is just the latest one?

by **Roger Brown** » 07 May 2004, 18:33

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 07 May 2004 19:33:23:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Paul Hunter at 07 May 2004 19:14:31:

There have been comments by Peter Berger and others about version 17 (I cannot recall the extension number) but based on its current performance in Leo's WBEC Premier Division, I would certainly agree with the engine's author - Dr. Robert Hyatt - that the latest is the greatest.
As far as I know, the SSDF is not planning to test the latest Crafty. Leo's competition and others may have to do in terms of the data you seek.
Later.

by **Matthias Gemuh** » 07 May 2004, 19:04

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 07 May 2004 20:04:09:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 07 May 2004 19:33:23:

Hi Later, latest or 17.14

BigLion + Taktix

by **Bryan Hofmann** » 07 May 2004, 21:28

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 07 May 2004 22:28:26:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 07 May 2004 20:04:09:

Any stats as to why 17.14?

by **Matthias Gemuh** » 07 May 2004, 23:06

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 08 May 2004 00:06:45:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 07 May 2004 22:28:26:

17.14 is based on many years of unceasing rumours

.
/Matthias.

BigLion + Taktix

by **Robert Allgeuer** » 08 May 2004, 16:39

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 08 May 2004 17:39:28:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 08 May 2004 00:06:45:

according to my testing (Blitz 5min+2) the difference is negligable, see link below
Robert

YABRL (Yet Another Rating List)

by **Paul Hunter** » 09 May 2004, 02:47

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Paul Hunter at 09 May 2004 03:47:46:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 08 May 2004 17:39:28:

Surely it is hard to believe that after a lot of development iterations, the much much older version is just at least as good, if not slightly better.

by **Roger Brown** » 09 May 2004, 04:46

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 09 May 2004 05:46:43:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Paul Hunter at 09 May 2004 03:47:46:

Hello Paul,
The same problem can be seen with Ruffian. I guess it depends on how near to the top you were when you started. An engine like Crafty has been a top master strength program for years.
There have been developments including SMP but the book - for instance - has remained the same. Remember too that Dr. Hyatt's code is out there for all to see. All other engines should able to improve against it.
Unless of course it really is a brute of an engine...
:-)

My two cents...
Later.

by **Mogens Larsen** » 09 May 2004, 10:18

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 09 May 2004 11:18:38:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Paul Hunter at 09 May 2004 03:47:46:

I don't think that defies belief given the Dr. Hyatt's design goals, ie. combatting humans as a primary goal. That may not necessarily improve the strength compared to other engines. Without revealing too much of my ignorance on computer systems, there's a chance that the focus on multiple processor support also plays a role. Eg. supressing software improvements/experiments that might be compensated for through hardware superiority.
Roger already mentions the problem of improving when reaching a certain level. Without offending either Uli Türke or Dieter Buerssner, one could argue that Comet and Yace suffer from the same problem. There are probably other engines with similar "problems".
Regards,
Mogens

by **Robert Allgeuer** » 09 May 2004, 10:50

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 09 May 2004 11:50:55:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Paul Hunter at 09 May 2004 03:47:46:

It appears that main development focus of Crafty is on multiprocessor support (both SMP and NUMA) and in that areas it has certainly progressed significantly.
Robert

YABRL (Yet Another Blitz Rating List)

by **Bryan Hofmann** » 09 May 2004, 18:33

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 09 May 2004 19:33:53:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 08 May 2004 17:39:28:

Since your matches disabled all learning this is not a true mesaure between the 2. Many changes to the Book and Position learning have happened since version 17.14 all for the better making a stronger engine. I think Leo's tourneys show this....

by **Uri Blass** » 09 May 2004, 18:51

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 09 May 2004 19:51:45:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 09 May 2004 19:33:53:

Leo's tournament is with 19.12 and I did not see 19.12 in the list of Robert.
Another point is that luck is an important factor in Leo's tournament and the same engine can get different results in different tournament

here is some comparison of engines that were not upgraded:
http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/his4thedition.html

KnightDreamer 3.2 41.5/84
Phalanx XXII 39.5/84
Amyan1.59 38.5/84
http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/his6thedition.html
Amyan1.59 38/68
Phalanx XXII 30.5/68
KnightDreamer 3.2 23.5/68
Uri

by **Bryan Hofmann** » 10 May 2004, 17:50

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 10 May 2004 18:50:12:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: what's the best crafty ever? geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 09 May 2004 19:51:45:

If you look at the performance of these engines Phalanx is on par with the stats below. Amyan is somewhat in bounds but due to the difference in the number of games it can't be shown. The wild card is KightDreamer. With different opponents between the 2 different editions it is some what difficult to say why Kightdreamer was bouncing around But in edition 7 it seems to have stablized back to its performance level in edition 4. Just looking at the place it fell in a tourney and the number of games it lost does not paint a true picture.
Edition 6
4 Amyan 1.59 : 2589 79 60 68 55.9 % 2548 38.2 %
15 Phalanx XXII : 2516 63 80 68 44.9 % 2552 33.8 %
18 KnightDreamer 3.2 : 2445 75 70 68 34.6 % 2556 30.9 %

Edition 4
(1) 11 KnightDreamer 3.2 : 2545 57 77 84 49.4 % 2549 29.8 %
13 Phalanx XXII : 2529 64 74 84 47.0 % 2550 22.6 %
15 Amyan 1.59 : 2521 66 73 84 45.8 % 2550 20.2 %

As far as Crafty I don't have any real games to compare 17.14 to the current version. But I am sure Hyatt has not wasted 2+ years in making a weaker engine.
Edition 7 So Far
* 4. Crafty 19.12 : 2618 91 84 44 63.6 % 2521 36.4 %
Edition 6
13. Crafty 19.06 : 2526 56 82 68 46.3 % 2551 42.6 %
Edition 4
6. Crafty 19.03 : 2610 68 49 84 58.9 % 2547 46.4 %

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