Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Leo Dijksman at 17 July 2004 17:07:50:
1st Division:
Round 6:
Movei 0.08.247 11½½ 3.0/4
WildCat 4.0 00½½ 1.0/4
---------------------------------
Zarkov 4.67 ½10½ 2.0/4
Abrok 5.0 ½01½ 2.0/4
---------------------------------
Pepito 1.59 ½10½ 2.0/4
Comet B.68 ½01½ 2.0/4
---------------------------------
Round 7:
AnMon 5.32 101½ 2.5/4
SlowChess 2.93a 010½ 1.5/4
---------------------------------
3rd Division:
Round 7:
Chispa 4.055 ½½½1 2.5/4
Cerebro 1.26g ½½½0 1.5/4
---------------------------------
Queen 2.44 0101 2.0/4
Snitch 0.3.72 1010 2.0/4
---------------------------------
5th Division:
Round 11:
SseChess 2.04.5 - Tinker 4.55 0-1 112
Plywood 1.73 - Hermann 1.1.6 0-1 49
Hermann 1.1.6 - Plywood 1.73 1-0 59
DrunkenMaster 1.1 - Deuterium 04.03.06.68 1-0 57
Deuterium 04.03.06.68 - DrunkenMaster 1.1 0-1 55
Sharper 0.17 - Nesik 0.6.4 1-0 67
Nesik 0.6.4 - Sharper 0.17 1-0 62
Tornado 0.80.17b - Neurosis 1.8b =-= 143 Tornado have mating problems!
Neurosis 1.8b - Tornado 0.80.17b 1-0 98
Ax 0.8 - LaDameBlanche 2.0c =-= 96
--------------------------------------------------------------
6th Division Group B:
Round 6:
Adam 1.6 - Faile 1.4 0-1 55
Faile 1.4 - Adam 1.6 1-0 44
Marvin 1.1.0 - ChessRikus 1.4.63 1-0 58
ChessRikus 1.4.63 - Marvin 1.1.0 0-1 55
Nero 5.3 - Cefap 0.7.2 0-1 41
Cefap 0.7.2 - Nero 5.3 1-0 68
Fencer 2.0 - LarsenVB 0.05.01 0-1 53
LarsenVB 0.05.01 - Fencer 2.0 =-= 70
MiniChessAI 1.18 - WESP 0.8 0-1 35
WESP 0.8 - MiniChessAI 1.18 1-0 41
Round 7:
ChessRikus 1.4.63 - Bace 0.46 1-0 31
Bace 0.46 - ChessRikus 1.4.63 0-1 32
Kanguruh 1.87 - Alex 1.60.05a =-= 114
Alex 1.60.05a - Kanguruh 1.87 =-= 54
Mustang 2.67 - Adam 1.6 1-0 38
Adam 1.6 - Mustang 2.67 =-= 90
--------------------------------------------------------------
Crosstables and pgn on the WBEC homepage.
Enginelist, latest updates/new engines:
17/07/2004:
Updated: Small C90-3 (New files! UCI only!)
Best wishes,
Leo.
WBEC Ridderkerk homepage.
Winboard Forum
Discussions (not only) about Xboard/Winboard, Computer Chess and Chess Programming
WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
6 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
by Roger Brown » 17 Jul 2004, 17:32
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 17 July 2004 18:32:36:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 17 July 2004 17:07:50:
Has anyone noticed how well Movei is doing? Darn these modest programmers who try to convince the rest of of how little they know about writing an engine!
Later.
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Leo Dijksman at 17 July 2004 17:07:50:
Movei 0.08.247 11½½ 3.0/4
WildCat 4.0 00½½ 1.0/4
---------------------------------
Has anyone noticed how well Movei is doing? Darn these modest programmers who try to convince the rest of of how little they know about writing an engine!
Later.
- Roger Brown
Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
by Uri Blass » 18 Jul 2004, 01:11
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 18 July 2004 02:11:18:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 17 July 2004 18:32:36:
Give serious opponents like Shredder or Fritz or Crafty or Diep and give them more than 4:1 hardware advantage and you are going to see that movei is doing very poorly(it lost to all of them in these condition in WCCC).
A programmer who really know much about writing an engine can beat them and become the world champion.
Uri
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 17 July 2004 18:32:36:
Movei is doing well only because of opponents that do mistakes that they do not need to do.Has anyone noticed how well Movei is doing? Darn these modest programmers who try to convince the rest of of how little they know about writing an engine!Movei 0.08.247 11½½ 3.0/4
WildCat 4.0 00½½ 1.0/4
---------------------------------
Later.
Give serious opponents like Shredder or Fritz or Crafty or Diep and give them more than 4:1 hardware advantage and you are going to see that movei is doing very poorly(it lost to all of them in these condition in WCCC).
A programmer who really know much about writing an engine can beat them and become the world champion.
Uri
- Uri Blass
Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
by Roger Brown » 18 Jul 2004, 04:39
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 18 July 2004 05:39:55:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 18 July 2004 02:11:18:
Hello Uri,
Chess is a game executed by humans. Even computer programs are written by humans and have the in-built limitations of their programmers.
Soltis wrote an entire book based on the fact that chess is a game of errors. I recall Larry Evans and Dann Heisman (I hope I am correct) writing in separate pices that the start of a chess game is an equality. Subsequent moves made after the game's start proceed on the basis I am attempting to summarise below:
The opening: Development of pieces and king safety
Middle-Game: Piece mobility, control of the centre, tactical considerations
End-Game : pawn power, heavy piece use, centralisation of the king
The key point is that no move would be made if the evaluation of the position after that move was that the side that moved was worse off. In other words, in the beginning central pawns are generally moved because the development of the pieces is given at least as high an evaluation - actually it should be higher - as doing nothing otherwise nothing should be done.
Why would one develop a knight? It must be because the score for developing a knight exceeds the score for keeping it in its starting position. The same is true for any opening move.
Mistakes occur for a variety of reasons but tactical errors predominate among humans. The pawn queesns on move 80 but it was the tactical error on move 40 that facilitated its promotion. Tactical errors among the best are simply harder to see - unless they are outright blunders and those are not as infrequent as GM's would like us to believe.
Mistakes are a part of the game. Chess is a game where the last mistake is that of the loser. You win when your opponent blunders away a pawn, a piece, the advantage of the two bishops etc. Accept it.
Your statement seems to infer that 99% of the engines devoloped and discussed and used and downloaded here are not serious engines? What are they exactly? Jokes? I do not accept that, not for a minute.
Let's say that I understand that you chose an unfortunate turn of phrase...
Step back a bit. I see persons excercising all the time. I do not think that any of them think that they could realistically take on Lance Armstrong (cycling), Ronaldo (soccer) or Brian Lara (cricket) and do anything but shame themselves.
Does that mean one should not jog or cycle or play a game of scrimmage? I think not. Shredder is a world class program. That program gets my vote for the meanest, baddest piece of silicon on the planet. Year after year. Fritz sits (I should say lounges) atop the SSDf lists for long intervals I believe. Diep is coming. Crafty is awesome. It has been awesome for years. That program has inspired several others. Some persons have even cloned it.
Movei does not belong in that group. I do not care what hardware you use. Now before someone misunderstands me, I am a Movei fan. I have tested it on the odd occasion (whenever Uri sends me a beta, hint, hint). Notwithstanding, Movei has the correct credentials in the form of a knowledgable programmer who is willing to learn. Movei is on the way up. Another division may very well be in its grasp. The rise has been fantastic.
That was not an insult, nor was it intended to be one. It was supposed to be liberating because who needs all that pressure to perform?
Forget Shredder and Crafty. Enjoy Movei. You want to do the modest routine? Fine. I just do not want it to become internalised. No-one is saying that you need to beat your chest but cut yourself some slack Uri. I have read that the happiest persons are not necessarily the ones who had the mostest, they are the ones who got the mostest out of whatever they had.
Be happy with the process. Be happy with less than your best? NEVER. Just as long as it is your best and not Shredder's or Fritz's or Crafty's.....
The authors of those programs paid their dues. No-one is going to simply emerge out of the blue and remove them from the top. They are the best at what they do and most of what they do is not available to the ordinary programmer.
I think that your position is a sad one but that is just my position. I am not the strongest person on my block but that is not going to stop me from fighting like blazes to push it up one more time. Even if it is only one ounce on the bar.
You want to measure yourself against Kasparov be my guest. Years of frustration await you. Me, I am happy beating Crafty SE set on super patzer. I am happy because it is a step up for me. Polgar I will take on...never.
Sorry to be so long but their might be others out there. Enjoy the ride, you are only going to do this stuff once. Do not be like that ageing boxer who shadowboxed and muttered to himself about the things he might have done, - ignoring the three championships he had won - because he never had a crack at the title that would have made him really happy.....while outside the champion he envied wanted so badly the three championships the old man had because three belts meant that you were the baddest cat in the jungle.
Peace.
Later.
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 18 July 2004 02:11:18:
Hello Uri,
Movei is doing well only because of opponents that do mistakes that they do not need to do.
Give serious opponents like Shredder or Fritz or Crafty or Diep and give them more than 4:1 hardware advantage and you are going to see that movei is doing very poorly(it lost to all of them in these condition in WCCC).
A programmer who really know much about writing an engine can beat them and become the world champion.
Chess is a game executed by humans. Even computer programs are written by humans and have the in-built limitations of their programmers.
Soltis wrote an entire book based on the fact that chess is a game of errors. I recall Larry Evans and Dann Heisman (I hope I am correct) writing in separate pices that the start of a chess game is an equality. Subsequent moves made after the game's start proceed on the basis I am attempting to summarise below:
The opening: Development of pieces and king safety
Middle-Game: Piece mobility, control of the centre, tactical considerations
End-Game : pawn power, heavy piece use, centralisation of the king
The key point is that no move would be made if the evaluation of the position after that move was that the side that moved was worse off. In other words, in the beginning central pawns are generally moved because the development of the pieces is given at least as high an evaluation - actually it should be higher - as doing nothing otherwise nothing should be done.
Why would one develop a knight? It must be because the score for developing a knight exceeds the score for keeping it in its starting position. The same is true for any opening move.
Mistakes occur for a variety of reasons but tactical errors predominate among humans. The pawn queesns on move 80 but it was the tactical error on move 40 that facilitated its promotion. Tactical errors among the best are simply harder to see - unless they are outright blunders and those are not as infrequent as GM's would like us to believe.
Mistakes are a part of the game. Chess is a game where the last mistake is that of the loser. You win when your opponent blunders away a pawn, a piece, the advantage of the two bishops etc. Accept it.
Your statement seems to infer that 99% of the engines devoloped and discussed and used and downloaded here are not serious engines? What are they exactly? Jokes? I do not accept that, not for a minute.
Let's say that I understand that you chose an unfortunate turn of phrase...
Step back a bit. I see persons excercising all the time. I do not think that any of them think that they could realistically take on Lance Armstrong (cycling), Ronaldo (soccer) or Brian Lara (cricket) and do anything but shame themselves.
Does that mean one should not jog or cycle or play a game of scrimmage? I think not. Shredder is a world class program. That program gets my vote for the meanest, baddest piece of silicon on the planet. Year after year. Fritz sits (I should say lounges) atop the SSDf lists for long intervals I believe. Diep is coming. Crafty is awesome. It has been awesome for years. That program has inspired several others. Some persons have even cloned it.
Movei does not belong in that group. I do not care what hardware you use. Now before someone misunderstands me, I am a Movei fan. I have tested it on the odd occasion (whenever Uri sends me a beta, hint, hint). Notwithstanding, Movei has the correct credentials in the form of a knowledgable programmer who is willing to learn. Movei is on the way up. Another division may very well be in its grasp. The rise has been fantastic.
That was not an insult, nor was it intended to be one. It was supposed to be liberating because who needs all that pressure to perform?
Forget Shredder and Crafty. Enjoy Movei. You want to do the modest routine? Fine. I just do not want it to become internalised. No-one is saying that you need to beat your chest but cut yourself some slack Uri. I have read that the happiest persons are not necessarily the ones who had the mostest, they are the ones who got the mostest out of whatever they had.
Be happy with the process. Be happy with less than your best? NEVER. Just as long as it is your best and not Shredder's or Fritz's or Crafty's.....
The authors of those programs paid their dues. No-one is going to simply emerge out of the blue and remove them from the top. They are the best at what they do and most of what they do is not available to the ordinary programmer.
I think that your position is a sad one but that is just my position. I am not the strongest person on my block but that is not going to stop me from fighting like blazes to push it up one more time. Even if it is only one ounce on the bar.
You want to measure yourself against Kasparov be my guest. Years of frustration await you. Me, I am happy beating Crafty SE set on super patzer. I am happy because it is a step up for me. Polgar I will take on...never.
Sorry to be so long but their might be others out there. Enjoy the ride, you are only going to do this stuff once. Do not be like that ageing boxer who shadowboxed and muttered to himself about the things he might have done, - ignoring the three championships he had won - because he never had a crack at the title that would have made him really happy.....while outside the champion he envied wanted so badly the three championships the old man had because three belts meant that you were the baddest cat in the jungle.
Peace.
Later.
- Roger Brown
Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
by Matthias Gemuh » 18 Jul 2004, 08:27
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 18 July 2004 09:27:58:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 18 July 2004 05:39:55:
Shalom, Roger.
My engine is full of bugs. It usually plays more than 80 moves without queening.
Cheers,
Matthias.
BigLion + Taktix
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 18 July 2004 05:39:55:
The pawn queens on move 80 ... .
Shalom, Roger.
My engine is full of bugs. It usually plays more than 80 moves without queening.
Cheers,
Matthias.
BigLion + Taktix
- Matthias Gemuh
Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results.
by Tord Romstad » 18 Jul 2004, 13:48
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Tord Romstad at 18 July 2004 14:48:17:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 18 July 2004 05:39:55:
The opening: When you try to get the advantage
Middle-Game: When you think you have the advantage
End-Game: When you know that you're lost
Tord
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: WBEC Ridderkerk new results. geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 18 July 2004 05:39:55:
Or, as Tartakower said:The opening: Development of pieces and king safety
Middle-Game: Piece mobility, control of the centre, tactical considerations
End-Game : pawn power, heavy piece use, centralisation of the king
The opening: When you try to get the advantage
Middle-Game: When you think you have the advantage
End-Game: When you know that you're lost
Tord
- Tord Romstad
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